To think that Scottish Independence is now inevitable and who can blame them, so good luck Scotland!

[GoodLuckWeNeedIt]

That’s it really. Unfortunately, I think this Brexit deal will probably go through tomorrow. But even if there was a referendum, people will probably vote for whatever deal going because everyone is demented with Brexit fatigue. And even if we did remain following another referendum, there would be so much backlash and unpleasantness from certain elements of the far right it doesn’t bear thinking about.

It’s extemely depressing. I’m in a Remain London Borough. Never really met a Brexiteer, but what can you do?

I can’t imagine how livid the Scottish people must feel though. Their referendum was fairly marginal, but I think if they’d seen this coming the Scottish independence vote would have won through.

Anyway, NS is definitely gearing up for another Scottish referendum and who could blame her? At least Scotland have the option of getting out of this nightmare. I’m sure they’ll be independent within a year or so and good for them. I wish them all the best.

AIBU to think the legacy of Brexit will be Scottish Independence and the end of the UK as we know it?

Smokiesings, so presumably you think it was right that British nationals living in the EU were not able to vote in the Brexit referendum?

Instructed them what to vote? Bet they found that hard to comply with. I'm alright Jack

How can someone be instructed what to vote?

Totally understandable that the Scots want Indeyref 2 and might well be Yes this time around.

I wish that the opposition parties in Scotland would get their act together though.
The loss of Ruth Davidson as leader of the Scottish Conservative Party has a huge impact on holding the SNP to account for their incredibly poor track record in government.

As for the poster who claims the Scottish Health Service is second to none, I can only assume you have very little experience of it and/ or other health services.

As a Scot living in England, the prospect of a hard border fills me with horror.

I'm pretty sure only the people living in a country should get to vote for its future, yes.

Velveteen. Just thinking about your comment there. So healthcare and education are good and free in Scotland. Scotland has wind, water, rain, land, fish, huge food and whisky, gin exports, also oil, tourism, and other products.

But: There is such poverty that we now tend to die sooner than people from other countries?!

Westminster takes all our tax and spends it as they prioritise (including HS2 which is not near Scotland, including Trident nuclear missiles which Scotland have said they don't want), and then gives Scotland a proportion of our own tax back as a block 'grant', which Scotland's government spend for Scotland's benefit.

Scotland is told that it is a financial basket case and needs this 'handout' to survive. (Note: this is what Westminster told India and other countries while asset stripping them, before those countries finally escaped Empire rule)

Scots politicians are demonised and ignored and insulted in Westminster despite trying to help stop a hard Brexit.

Scotland struck oil and has got poorer.

Scotland can and will thrive as an independent country

Calyx, individual Scots have to take some responsibility for their own health.
You cannot blame it all on Westminster.

This is one of the most frustrating things about Independence supporters.
There is zero acceptance for individual responsibility or any ability to accept any failure of the SNP government.

“ I don't get all the talk about Scotland becoming independent then joining the EU - it isn't going to happen - they can't just sign up, so they will be independent and still out of the EU. However I am no expert and there is possibly something I am missing here - if so please tell me (genuinely) as I can't see it happening?”

Scotland would most likely join EFTA as an interim measure and so would have full single market access. There would be a future referendum on EU membership which could go either way.

But an independent Scotland in EFTA is incalculably better than having our economic policy run from Westminster operating with the EU as a balancing influence.

The critical point is that it would be our decision. At the moment the only constituent country of the UK not getting a fair outcome is Scotland. England and Wales get Brexit, which they voted for. NI gets a special deal and Scotland gets shafted.

Sorry unionists, but you’ve had your time. Over 300 years of it. We’ll do something different going forward.

Education is poor in Scotland - no longer better than England. Health service is struggling to recruit doctors who pay less tax in the rest of the UK. Even fully staffed the health service will never be as comprehensive as the English Health Service and will have to buy in services from England. This is for a very simple reason; rare conditions occurs twelve times more often in a population of 60 million than in a population of 5 million.

“ The loss of Ruth Davidson as leader of the Scottish Conservative Party has a huge impact on holding the SNP to account for their incredibly poor track record in government. ”

She was an ex BBC journalist who got the friendliest and most sycophantic press imaginable. Her abilities were a figment of the media’s imagination.

Smokiesings. I agree with you completely but the fees thing grates like hell. Told what to vote? What the fuck is the point of your vote/ opinion? For what it's worth, I think Scotland should be allowed to vote again but with better information than was given with Brexit

Well it would be hard to have less accurate info than the whole Brexit shitstorm!

And they definitely should not be told what to vote. I mean, what's the point?

Ruth Davidson’s abilities were not a figment of anyone’s imagination.
She is an articulate, intelligent woman with an actual personality.

If Scotland is so interested in what’s fair and democratic, surely you want an effective opposition?
Or are you really just interested in a Scottish echo chamber?

Ruth Davidson was an appalling leader who would never do interviews and who would go into hiding for months at a time whenever the Tories were in trouble. Which was often.

I very much want an effective government and opposition. I hope when independence is achieved that the SNP will splinter or disband entirely, and then we will see entirely new parties leading Scotland, operating without the baggage of the past.

Pickup, Ruth had one line - no to another Indy ref. That's it. When the heat was turned up, she left politics. Ruth saw the polling saying that the SNP are expected to take more seats and possibly even all 13 of her Scottish conservative seats could go, and she backed out. Brexit has shot down the Tories in Scotland even more than they already were.

Well, let’s just hope that all those prospective politicians come out of hiding themselves and actually do offer an alternative to the SNP in an independent Scotland.

Pieces yes of course individual people have to take responsibility for their health. I was writing in general as there is a proven negative effect of poverty on health.

The causes of Scotland's poverty aren't worth comment though? Do you think being governed by Westminster and them keeping EU agricultural subsidies meant for Scotland's farmers, taking all Scotland's tax and income and telling Scotland and the world how they subsidise Scotland (and so on) is the best way to go for Scotland? And Brexit which Scotland's people voted against being forced on us to our huge detriment, is that better than self governance?

Of course, poverty and the causes of it are always worthy of discussion but the Scottish government has had more than enough time and resources to make some improvement to Scottish outcomes in terms of health.

Blind worship at the altar of the SNP, isn’t doing anyone any favours.
I say that as a lifelong Labour voter ( until the Corbyn years) when I was perfectly able to discern between policies which I supported and those that I disagreed with.

Blind worship of the SNP. Is that what you took from my posts?

Really?

That's what's so frustrating about unionists. Blind worship of the union. [sarcasm]

(The only reason I vote SNP is to gain independence for Scotland. I would vote by looking at policies after independence.)

Scotland's health is improving by the way.

Yes, blind worship is what I take from your posts.
If you said, overall I think the SNP are doing a great job but for example, I accept there are concerns around Queen Elizabeth hospital in Glasgow or Sick Kids in Edinburgh and thank god the Named Persons scheme didn’t go through, I’d have a lot more respect for your opinions.
But it’s always Westminster’s fault.

As for blind supporter of the union, I’ve never thought if it that way.
Having travelled to parts of the world where people are genuinely oppressed, I’ve always thought there’s more that unites us than divides us here.

I don't blind worship the SNP and I believe independence is not about a political party. I don't understand your thinking. I know I won't change anyone's mind especially you who won't debate properly, instead you try to insult me with 'blind worship' goading. There's no need for it.

Pickup, the SNP have made improvements to Scotland's health; from the article i posted earlier; "Health policy is now devolved to the Scottish government in Holyrood, and the Scottish National Party has made much of its record, which includes abolishing prescription charges and presiding over improved patient satisfaction. Joe FitzPatrick, Scottish Government Minister for Public Health, told Spotlight: “The Scottish government has been working to address the underlying causes that drive health inequalities – not just in Glasgow but right across Scotland. Our bold package of measures to help tackle key issues such as smoking, obesity, inactivity, and alcohol misuse will support people to live longer healthier lives. We are also investing in affordable housing, providing free school meals and continuing commitments like free prescriptions and free personal care. This is on top of an investment of more than £125m a year to mitigate the worst impacts of welfare reforms and to protect those on low incomes.”

What is wrong with that? Surely we can be proud of that? You can't deny that the Scottish government does spend a lot of their budget in mitigation of the most harmful Tory policies? They do their best to help the poorest and those who need it most.

Of course no political party is perfect. Of course the SNP do things i don't approve of. However they are doing what they can for the people of Scotland. We voted to remain in the EU and they are doing their utmost to keep Scotland in the EU, or at least the single market. Even though Brexit would do more to help the cause of Scottish independence than pretty much anything, they are fighting to stop it. That is annoying plenty of SNP voters but they are doing their best and they are getting no thanks for it. Even though it was Joanna Cherry's case, the SNP were not invited on to the BBC's ' Supreme Court special' on that very case.

@PickUpThePieces

Funny how you think posters blind worship SNP but fail to see how you blindly support the union 🤔