Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that Scottish Independence is now inevitable and who can blame them, so good luck Scotland!

274 replies

GoodLuckWeNeedIt · 18/10/2019 13:14

That’s it really. Unfortunately, I think this Brexit deal will probably go through tomorrow. But even if there was a referendum, people will probably vote for whatever deal going because everyone is demented with Brexit fatigue. And even if we did remain following another referendum, there would be so much backlash and unpleasantness from certain elements of the far right it doesn’t bear thinking about.

It’s extemely depressing. I’m in a Remain London Borough. Never really met a Brexiteer, but what can you do?

I can’t imagine how livid the Scottish people must feel though. Their referendum was fairly marginal, but I think if they’d seen this coming the Scottish independence vote would have won through.

Anyway, NS is definitely gearing up for another Scottish referendum and who could blame her? At least Scotland have the option of getting out of this nightmare. I’m sure they’ll be independent within a year or so and good for them. I wish them all the best.

AIBU to think the legacy of Brexit will be Scottish Independence and the end of the UK as we know it?

OP posts:
Iggi999 · 19/10/2019 23:17

But still more than the tourism revenue of Ireland and Wales put together

celtiethree · 19/10/2019 23:27

We were a family of no votes last time. I don’t care how difficult it will be Westminster has proven that it doesn’t care about Scotland. They treat the Scots with complete contempt. We’d all vote yes if there was another referendum.

FiddlesticksAkimbo · 19/10/2019 23:45

Westminster has proven that it doesn’t care about Scotland. They treat the Scots with complete contempt.

This! It will be laughable for a British government to say that it gives a shit about Scotland after the last three years.

I would guess that the timing will be unfortunate. England ripping itself out of the EU (if that happens) will be difficult enough. We haven't even started that yet. Dissolving a 300 year union immediately afterwards will leave the country exhausted, diminished and bewildered. It will have suffered a severe blow to its economy. It will have given up its voice at the top table of its own continent. Scotland will require the trident submarines to leave Faslane and there's no suitable deepwater harbour in England - England will cease to be a nuclear power. And with that will go it's seat on the security council.

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 20/10/2019 00:05

Yes Fiddlesticks...

But they'll be taking back control won't they?

hopelessatthinkingupusernames · 20/10/2019 13:11

I’m Scottish and voted no last time. I think it would be a bad idea to have another indyref right now (things are divided enough from Brexit, we don’t need to split the country even further). I do understand why there are calls for one though and it wouldn’t surprise me if yes won this time. Westminster is an absolute shit show and they couldn’t care less about Scotland and what we want

KennDodd · 20/10/2019 17:08

Westminster has proven that it doesn’t care about Scotland.
Actually I think Westminster cares a lot more about Scotland (and Wales and NI) than English people/voters do, and you can see how little Westminster cares. I've yet to meet a Leave voter in England who gives a single shiny shit about Scotland or even the peace in NI.

I think one big mistake with the Brexit referendum and Scottish independence referendums is that they both required just a simple majority. With a change of this magnitude you need to take the people with you, a simple majority just divides. A plus about Scottish independence though that might help heal is that Scottish people who didn't want independence won't actually lose any citizenship rights, they will still be British citizens with all the rights that go with that. With the EU referendum, people who wanted to remain will be stripped of all their rights as EU citizens, I think that has resulted in an enormous amount of anger (understandably) from some.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 20/10/2019 17:18

Westminster has proven that it doesn’t care about Scotland. They treat the Scots with complete contempt.

You say similar about the SNP concerning the central belt vs the rest of Scotland.

Fstar · 20/10/2019 17:23

The people of Scotland voted to remain in UK, NS needs to sit the fuck down and shut her gob. How would independance solve the current issues

FiddlesticksAkimbo · 20/10/2019 17:52

How would independance solve the current issues

You mean brexit? It's not intended to "solve" brexit. Brexit is a symptom of (and has shone a light on) a greater problem - an utter lack of respect from the English for their "partners" in the union.

I'm pretty sure Mumsnet advice would be very clear on this - LTB.

wheresmymojo · 20/10/2019 18:11

Could someone who is pro-EU but also anti-Union explain their thinking?

What are the advantages to leaving the Union that don't apply to leaving the EU?

What are the disadvantages of leaving the EU that don't apply to leaving the Union?

Not a goady post, I'm not Scottish so it's not about me...I just want to understand as it seems to be a common position but seems conflicting to me (as an outsider)?

wheresmymojo · 20/10/2019 18:19

Quite poor & very small

It's not as small as people think - size and population wise it's similar to a Nordic country like Denmark.

Cailleachian · 20/10/2019 19:04

@Velveteenfruitbowl

"all the other places I’ve been look very poor"

Yeah, there is a lot of poverty in Scotland, but that isnt a sign of a lack of resources or wealth production, its a sign that we dont keep the wealth we produce.

Look at the Congo, teaming with diamonds, gold, rare minerals, not a poor country by any reasonable measure, yet you would never know that by looking at downtown Kinshasa.

AgentCooper · 20/10/2019 19:11

I was a no in 2014 and I’m a yes now. Scotland has a shitload of problems to fix but I don’t want any more of the utter shitshow going on down south anymore.

HirplesWithHaggis · 20/10/2019 19:55

Today 18:11 wheresmymojo

Could someone who is pro-EU but also anti-Union explain their thinking?

What are the advantages to leaving the Union that don't apply to leaving the EU?

What are the disadvantages of leaving the EU that don't apply to leaving the Union?

Not a goady post, I'm not Scottish so it's not about me...I just want to understand as it seems to be a common position but seems conflicting to me (as an outsider)?

The nature of the two unions is totally different. In simple terms, within the UK our voices are not heard. We voted 62% Remain, but the UK said Leave, and no special arrangements for us. Our government has not been consulted at any point in the process, and our MPs are shouted down and jeered at in the HoC by those who haven't actually walked out when they started to speak.

In contrast, see how the EU support their member Ireland.

Sandinyourshoes · 20/10/2019 20:20

Would Scots still be British citizens if Scotland were to become independent? Confused

Clangus00 · 20/10/2019 20:21

@sandinyourshoes No, we’d be Scottish citizens.

KennDodd · 20/10/2019 21:21

@Sandinyourshoes

I think there is next to zero chance of people living in Scotland being stripped of their British citizenship, I very much doubt it would even be legal to do so. I expect they would have the same situation they do in NI, in that they can have one or other nationality or both.

KennDodd · 20/10/2019 21:25

Just rethinking that actually.
There's a real rise in English nationalism and far right racist ideology post brexit referendum, perhaps there would be laws changed to strip you of British (English as some might see it) citizenship.

Pandaintheporridge · 20/10/2019 21:27

I don't think that's very likely. But if it did happen, I'm sure everyone born already as a British citizen could maintain that. I live in scotland but am from elsewhere in the UK - I imagine I could have a British and a Scottish passport if it came to that, in the same way people from NI can have British and Irish passports.

Velveteenfruitbowl · 20/10/2019 23:22

@Cailleachian where does it go? I thought Scotland had its own revenue regime? Where does it come from in the first place?

I don’t know much about Scotland beyond a few visits and the internet isn’t particularly illuminating (did eventually try to google but beyond an average income per capita, by western standards at least, I didn’t find much. It’s enough to conclude that it isn’t as poor as it looks but just very mismanaged perhaps?).

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 20/10/2019 23:51

Would Scots still be British citizens if Scotland were to become independent?

Britain isn't a country, it's an island, a land mass. Unless we chop off England and drag ourselves due North, we will be remaining on the island of Great Britain. We will always be just as British as the Welsh and the English.

Will we be United Kingdom citizens? No.
Will the UK exist? Not really as the UK was originally made up of a treaty of Scotland and England.

You guys can be Wangland + NI, unless they leave too.

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 20/10/2019 23:56

@Velveteenfruitbowl
Scotland's wealth comes mainly from Oil, Whisky production, tourism and renewable energy. Most of it goes straight to Westminster and is invested in Southern England. Exports originating in Scotland are counted as English when they leave English ports.

Did you know that Scotland has the highest defence spending per head in the world? That would be because WM decided to base all teh nuclear weapons here and apportion the cost to the Scots.

For many years WM would have you believe that Scotland is funded by England, but it's not the case. There are missing trillions. Norway has a similar population and similar oil reserves to Scotland and is much richer than us.

StoneofDestiny · 21/10/2019 00:05

Can't wait to see Scotland independent. The Scots are constantly being dragged into situations they don't vote for and are currently being dragged out of Europe against their will. The increasingly right wing populist government in Westminster do not speak for the Scots, or act in their best interests. The current PM clearly detests the Scots, evident from what he allowed to be printed when he was editor of the Spectator.

everythingisginandroses · 21/10/2019 00:18

It is starting to feel inevitable. It's like Woody Allen said about death - I'm not afraid of it, I just don't want to be there when it happens.

KatyCarrCan · 21/10/2019 00:23

I do love the anti-Scottish racism on MN independence threads. The independence movement should put some of these gems on posters, not only are they hilarious and misinformed but I genuinely think a lot of Scots would be surprised that certain parts of the UK are so ignorant about Scotland's economy, services, etc. It makes you wonder how on earth the union has survived for so long.