To ask a lady to stop volunteering?

[Mumofone1862]

I run a non profit playgroup and for the past month I have had a new volunteer.

There are a few issues- on several occasions I have been talking to mums about something they have asked me about and the woman cuts in to tell a story about herself and it's like she is trying to cut the mum out of the conversation and just talk to me.

As volunteers the main thing is to just welcome new mums and make sure they are happy ect. But two mums have come to me because she doesn't listen when they ask her not to take their children or tell them what to do with their child.

This is the same with my child, he cries whenever she comes near him as he knows she will pick him up. I told her atleaat 4 times last week not to pick him up but she doesn't listen. In the end it means I have to carry him around as he is scared which makes running a group alot harder.

One woman has stopped coming as the volunteer is so 'in your face', you can politely end a conversation and walk away and she will follow you.

I set up a playgroup as I hated being left out at playgroups and by following me around and talking over the mums it isn't a great environment.

I understand she probably just wants to be my friend but I want to talk to everyone and as volunteers we should be talking to different people to help everyone feel welcome.

She doesn't help set up or put away, her idea of helping is looking after my son, but he honestly was better before she came. I have politely said multiple times for her to not go near my son. I explained he is a mummy's boy and doesn't like strangers so is better left alone or with me but she ignores me as though she knows best.

She is in her late 60's and has said she is lonley as her child has grown up, but the last two weeks I've barely made enough to run the group whereas before her I was doubling the money and we were able to do really fun crafts and have lots of fruit for the children rather than just bananas!

The fact multiple people have come to me makes me think more people think the same but are being polite.

Should I ask her to leave? My husband said to ask her to do kitchen duties (tea/coffee ect) but I don't know how I would go about it as I already have a specific volunteer to make drinks who is happy as they are and it would be obvious I was trying to push her out? I could just be honest but she seems very emotional (e.g. almost crying when my son doesn't want her to hold him)

What are her “additional needs” OP?

Wow. I hope a lot of previous posters don't manage or supervise staff!

OP before kicking her out, you need to actually be a grown up and manage the situation by using your words.

Tell her nicely but explicitly what's not working and work out a plan and timescales to turn around.

Volunteer management is as much a task as managing staff and you should be willing to deal with all aspects.

Who are your other volunteers? Perhaps it's time for a new policy where the group is run by the parents who are there with their children anyway.

Otherwise I think your only option is to have a meeting with her where you state extremely clearly what her role as a volunteer is and that she should facilitate chat between the mums, taking care not to talk more than they are. She shouldn't pick a child up unless they approach her asking to be picked up.

It sounds as though she is TRYING to be nice and failing spectacularly.

I would also in the meeting state that you do not want her to approach your son as it is his opportunity to play with toys and other children, not with the adults.

Then give her another week and if there is no improvement she will have to go and you can say that she isn't following the instructions and promoting the ethos of the group.

After that, although I know I would feel guilty, you will have to let go of any feeling of responsibility.

I'd just calmly say that you don't think her volunteering is working well and you'd like her to stop attending. You can explain about the complaints if pushed, but don't make it a big protracted discussio

This. After a session of playgroup finishes and you’re clearing up...

Ah, X I wanted to talk to you about your volunteering here. I don’t think it’s really working out. I appreciate all the time you’ve given this playgroup, but going forward, I won’t need your help anymore. Our numbers are down, and I’d rather run the group on my own.

She either leaves quietly, or she’s socially inept and makes an issue/asks why etc.

In that case, I’d say what you said here. People don’t like her picking their children up etc etc and your little boy has become clingy because he’s worried about being picked up. Explain that her role is a hands off role, and as she is more comfortable hands on, and picking up the children etc, it is changing the dynamic of the group, and it’s not working.

OP, I am a volunteer and one of my roles has been supporting other volunteers with additional needs, perhaps people who have difficulty reading facial expressions or applying boundaries. We work with the public and I had to make sure they got the service delivered appropriately; our needs came second (tho I did my utmost to make sure we had a good, stimulating and fun time). I also volunteer in a primary school. Initiating touch is a big no no from a safeguarding perspective in both settings. Do you have a safeguarding policy? I would never touch a child or baby unless there was an emergency (or the parent/carer made it clear it was OK as part of an activity or something).

OP it sounds as if you are running this group all on your own, is that right?

In a larger organisation there are usually rules and procedures for recruiting volunteers, including clear role descriptions, taking up of references, DBS if appropriate, clear lines of responsibility, progress reviews and so on. Now, these things can be a pain to implement and I'm the first to admit that adherence can be patchy, but they are your friend in circumstances such as this.

If you are entirely on your own, running this for the good of the community, then as others have said you need to find a way of telling her she can't continue with you. FWIW, I would not use the "you can't come till you've had a DBS check" line, because if she then gets one, what are you going to do?

I don't know how you would even go about getting a DBS check done if you are not part of an umbrella organisation. Do you have one yourself, OP? Have any of the parents ever asked about your Safeguarding policy?

I very much feel for you, OP; it's not easy to risk seeming harsh when someone's giving their time for free, but it's also true that this can't go on

About the only new (?) thing I can suggest is to ask what she feels the best way to resolve this is. It's just possible that "giving her ownership" might make a difference, but if not you really are down to saying that you don't feel the job is a good match for her

If you have to do this, though, I'd also say that you'll encourage the organisation to find her something else, and that you're sure she'll be happier with a much better "fit"

If you don't already have a Code of Conduct for volunteers, then you need to get yourself one ASAP. Once drawn up, volunteers need to then sign it to say they agree to abide by it. It should include consequences for not following it as well (If you fail to abide by the Code of Conduct, you may be asked to leave the group. If parents stay with the children, there is no need for a volunteer to be picking them up or cuddling them.

Perhaps sit down with your volunteers and a list of tasks that need to be done and assign people specific tasks. So, for example, somebody in the kitchen (you already have that), somebody to lead singing and/or read stories, somebody to do the crafts, somebody to get the toys out, somebody to put them away, etc. Obviously you know what the actual tasks are that need to be done.

And, as others have said, make it clear that volunteering isn't about just doing whatever you feel like. It comes with responsibilities and requirements and needs to be undertaken with professionalism. If she doesn't want to follow your rules and requests, then I would suggest that this role is not the right one for her and she might be happier elsewhere.

Mumofone, you must speak plainly to the woman.

In your position the simplest solution is for you to tell her politely that she is not needed any more as you already have enough help. Suggest she tries volunteering for a charity shop where she will be able to chat with people of similar age, or for an animal shelter where the animals may welcome human attention. I would not waste time giving her the chance to improve as she has already ignored your specific requests. She is spoiling it for too many people, sadly. If pushed you will have to tell her that as she ignores your requests and instructions it is not working out. The bottom line is that you are running a playgroup for the benefit of children and parents. It is not your responsibility to deal with an elderly woman's loneliness, there are plenty of other options for her.

She's not really a volunteer is she? She's coming for the company and what she really needs is a pensioners' group. That's a bit patronising! Nobody volunteers out of pure altruism, everyone has some reward - sense of purpose, structure to the week, learning something new, something to add to a cv. And many organisations, small museums, libraries etc would be on their knees if all the volunteers aged 60 and above were redirected to a "pensioners' group" - they rely on volunteers who no longer have full time paid employment.

or she’s socially inept and makes an issue/asks why etc. Why is it socially inept to ask why someone is telling you they no longer need you in a role that you thought you were performing well? How can you ever change if you're not allowed to ask what is wrong?

People seem to have a very strange idea of what constitutes elderly on here. Pensioners groups, elderly lunch clubs, memory groups? For goodness sake. I’m sixty-six and would be horrified if anyone suggested these to me. 😱

Hope all this helps you, OP. I’ve been in similar situations. I agree the best thing is to be honest. Your focus is the needs of the mums and babies and you don’t exist to validate her or meet her needs. You can be kind and polite but explain that she makes some people and their children uncomfortable and she does not follow requests or even instructions. She may have social difficulties but you can’t resolve them.
A charity shop would be great for her. If she’s not good at reading social situations, she could work grading the clothes rather than customer facing, for example.
Also, I agree you need a volunteer policy and possibly a small volunteer board/coordinating group to help you.

would she be able to fundraise or source free needed items? If so, tell her that you would like to promote her to a position with more responsibility. Would keep her busy and away from the children and parents.

As somebody said above, whatever her special needs, it is upsetting for the mums attending the session having a person getting near to their babies, ignoring their requests to stay away from them.

The group is for the mothers, not to solve the needs of lonely adults, this is not the right volunteering for her.

I bet none of those defending the woman would welcome a stranger holding and upsetting their babies repeatedly against their expressed wishes in a regular basis just because the woman has special needs.

She doesn’t listen, what if she accidentally hurts a baby? Would that be okay because she didn’t mean it even if you told her hundreds of times to stay away?

You've had numerous complaints, including your own. She's pushing away the mums who this group was made for and using it to spend time with you, while you try to run it.

You've said and warned before, now you need to ask her not to come back. She must find a group suitable for her needs not try to change an existing one.

Can you have the conversation but with someone from the original group also there? It wouldn't be a bad idea to have back-up/a witness.

I would be tempted to ask her to leave straight away. Her presence is affecting the numbers of people attending so where's the benefit in having her there?

Or you say quite clearly 'Sort it out next week or you'll have to leave'.

I'm a trustee of a charity which relies very heavily on volunteers and, unfortunately, sometimes you have to make tough decisions.

I help run some voluntary groups and IMO volunteers do need training. Can you run a training morning and set out exactly what is expected of her and what isn’t appropriate? I think you need to give a chance. But if after a longer trial period after training she is still completely unsuitable re evaluate.

To be honest she sounds derranged and the almost crying is fake to make you feel sorry for her and guilt trip you.
She doesn't respect boundaries. Sounds to me like she has a personality disorder and knows exactly what she is doing. I wouldn't trust her in the kitchen making food and drinks. Send her home.

I agree that this volunteer should go elsewhere. You need to keep your own group functioning & you need to stop the rot now before it folds completely.

Reading the OP, I was thinking before the end that the volunteer sounded lonely. I used to interview for voluntary positions & I only once spotted someone who was applying for the wrong reasons & wouldn't be up to it. I gently tried to dissuade her, putting it in terms of her own best interests; she insisted she wanted to join. I reported back on the interview & recommended against her, but was overruled on the grounds that they wanted to give everyone a try. She joined & swiftly left.

People need to be placed somewhere that suits them. This woman is in the wrong place. It's kinder to her, yourself & all the other mums & volunteers, to enable her to move to a position where she'll be happy & fit in.

To be honest she sounds derranged and the almost crying is fake to make you feel sorry for her and guilt trip you.
She doesn't respect boundaries...…... and knows exactly what she is doing. Send her home.

This^

It sums up all five pages. Are you going to wait until her behaviour escalates ? Even subtly ?

Telling the children if they are good they will get a treat from her ? Asking them to come home with her ?

Just how upset do the children have to be before you act ? How many more complaints and no-shows from parents are you going to get before you tell her ?

If the group folds, because of her, she won't care.

I think I would just say something very simple and impersonal -

“thanks for the help you’ve given us recently. We’re now up to full numbers on helpers for all tasks and won’t be needing you after today. I’ll send xxx organisation a message so they know you need a new opportunity. Good luck.”

Whatever she says “but I’d like to keep coming” blah blah blah, just keep repeating “Oh how kind, but we can’t be over numbers of volunteers, then we’d have fewer mums!”

Just make up some stuff about mums with children in the group being the recommended type of volunteer, having enough of these, and her help is no longer required.

And get it done quickly -lots of people won’t come back after just one crappy experience.

As she’s an older woman and has said she’s lonely, I wonder if an option might be to say she can’t come to the playgroup anymore as she’s upsetting the children (I’m sure you can find a nicer way of putting it!) but maybe she’d like to come round to yours for a cup of tea? Make a cake, have the baby in a high chair and have a coffee morning with her once a week or something.

My god, no. OP is already volunteering for her community running this playgroup. Why would she take on the additional voluntary task of trying to befriend someone who doesn’t understand consent and boundaries around OP’s child and has caused nothing but hassle!? Some women are really socialised to be far too ‘nice’ to their own detriment.

OP you can’t have her volunteer anymore for many reasons, but the most pressing and non negotiable is that she DOES NOT UNDERSTAND OR RESPECT CONSENT when it comes to other people’s children. Get rid ASAP. You’re not running the group for her benefit!

Alexa aren't they suggesting those groups on a voluntary basis, not as a participant? So the person in their sixties is helping out with the elderly, not that they are elderly?

OP please ensure when you do speak to the volunteer that you use clear and direct vocabulary, so there is no chance that she may become confused, eg by "need to let you go" which doesn't sound the same as "you are not to come back" if you can't interpret the former. If she unable to retain instructions and guidance (what she's been told already) then she's a liability rather than an asset.

I wouldn't give her an additional probationary period, she's technically been on probation thus far and hasn't been able to comply with instructions and deal tactfully with either the mums or the tots. No point throwing good money after bad.