To ask a lady to stop volunteering?

[Mumofone1862]

I run a non profit playgroup and for the past month I have had a new volunteer.

There are a few issues- on several occasions I have been talking to mums about something they have asked me about and the woman cuts in to tell a story about herself and it's like she is trying to cut the mum out of the conversation and just talk to me.

As volunteers the main thing is to just welcome new mums and make sure they are happy ect. But two mums have come to me because she doesn't listen when they ask her not to take their children or tell them what to do with their child.

This is the same with my child, he cries whenever she comes near him as he knows she will pick him up. I told her atleaat 4 times last week not to pick him up but she doesn't listen. In the end it means I have to carry him around as he is scared which makes running a group alot harder.

One woman has stopped coming as the volunteer is so 'in your face', you can politely end a conversation and walk away and she will follow you.

I set up a playgroup as I hated being left out at playgroups and by following me around and talking over the mums it isn't a great environment.

I understand she probably just wants to be my friend but I want to talk to everyone and as volunteers we should be talking to different people to help everyone feel welcome.

She doesn't help set up or put away, her idea of helping is looking after my son, but he honestly was better before she came. I have politely said multiple times for her to not go near my son. I explained he is a mummy's boy and doesn't like strangers so is better left alone or with me but she ignores me as though she knows best.

She is in her late 60's and has said she is lonley as her child has grown up, but the last two weeks I've barely made enough to run the group whereas before her I was doubling the money and we were able to do really fun crafts and have lots of fruit for the children rather than just bananas!

The fact multiple people have come to me makes me think more people think the same but are being polite.

Should I ask her to leave? My husband said to ask her to do kitchen duties (tea/coffee ect) but I don't know how I would go about it as I already have a specific volunteer to make drinks who is happy as they are and it would be obvious I was trying to push her out? I could just be honest but she seems very emotional (e.g. almost crying when my son doesn't want her to hold him)

I understand how frustrating this must be for you and it seems as though it's going to be difficult to let her go without hurting her feelings and you coming across as unkind.
Is it possible she's over friendly and not realising the way she comes across? I think maybe speaking to the organisation would be a good step so you won't need to face her.
Also, for future reference, it's lonely, not lonley.

And please don’t fanny around making stuff up and lying to her, pretending it’s a DBS issue, she’ll only turn up again with a DBS. If she’s like this at the group she’s probably like it elsewhere: it’s more of a kindness to actually give her feedback on how her behaviour is impacting others so she understands where she’s going wrong and has the option to work on it going forward if she wishes to volunteer elsewhere.

The first time you have to ask a volunteer to leave is absolutely the hardest, but for the sake of your group you must ask her to leave. It takes a long time to build up a good reputation for a group, but takes very little time to have that reputation ruined.

Do you have volunteer policies? If not, once you ask her to leave, think about setting some up. They dont' have to be lengthy or complicated, but they do help. Also always start volunteers on a month trial basis and have an honest evaluation at the end of it.

If you can't trust a volunteer to chat to your members then you can't have her there, you need to tell her it's not working out.

The lady who is leaving found this woman through working in an organisation as she was lonley and had additional needs

So she solved her problem by making it yours?

In the nicest possible way if you are going to run anything, even a small vountary group, you need to practice ways of saying 'no thanks" and "this isn't working but thanks for the offer".

Making up stories about rules, regs and anything else isn't fair to her. She should be offered an honest reason and the other woman should really help her find something else having set her up to fail.

If you know of a more suitable organisation for her specifically then connect them (if fit and healthy should could possibly be a volunteer to see other lonely people) but if she doesn't take feedback you need to tell her honestly why it isn't working.

Why are you prioritising this woman's feelings over the feelings of the people this group is for - the mothers and children?

Sorry to be blunt, but that is effectively what you are doing.

And you're going to have to be blunt with this woman. You've told her not to do things and she continues to do them. Softening the message in ANY way will be misread by her.

'You ignore my instructions and this has led to distress for the mothers, the children and me. I think it's best if you find some other voluntary work, you are not suited to this and I won't allow it to continue.'

Yes. That blunt. Don't soften it.

oh dear OP. what a tricky situation. I'd be very tempted to tell her she's not needed anymore too.

as a pp suggested is it possible to do some training for her and possibly other volunteers? I recently trained to be a breastfeeding peer support and the first thing we did was about how to listen and respond supportively . ie don't tell people what to do or interrupt with stories of your own experince.

'You ignore my instructions and this has led to distress for the mothers, the children and me. I think it's best if you find some other voluntary work, you are not suited to this and I won't allow it to continue.'

^ This

I hate confrontation but I think I would be so annoyed with this woman ruining the group for me and other parents that the anger would give me the confidence to say this. And I'd be pretty annoyed with the person who introduced the woman and is now doing a runner. Aside from someone doing coffees etc does your group actually need volunteers? All the groups I went to were either official ones run by HVs where you could get advice or ones actually run by the parents themselves - we'd have been a bit WTF about random people appearing because we were basically there to chat to other parents.

*You ignore my instructions and this has led to distress for the mothers, the children and me. I think it's best if you find some other voluntary work, you are not suited to this and I won't allow it to continue.'

Yes. That blunt. Don't soften it.*

Exactly. She should be in a support group regarding her needs. Not getting involved with volunteering with children. I am genuinely concerned something (else) is going to go wrong because, frankly, she doesn't listen and IMO can't be trusted.

In a different scenario, someone in a support group did not follow simple instructions i.e. please put your seat belt on. Because of the nature of the support group any deterioration in behaviour had to be reported to their carers. We could not turn a blind eye to it and it would be a failure in our duty of care if we did.

I think perhaps the volunteer has an attitude problem doing as she pleases and not listening to requests/instructions. If it's a diagnosed problem, then, so be it. Personally, I would not trust her in a caring capacity under any circumstances.

I can't believe that the OP has been so weak willed about this. Especially as it's her own child that's been upset and on more than one occasion by her.

Leaving aside issues such as SEN for a minute:

-It’s completely unacceptable for someone in a position as voluntary “staff” working with children to not have a DBS check. They could be a paedophile and you wouldn’t know.

-It’s also unacceptable for such a person to initiate touch with a child. They should be complying with standard safeguarding procedures.

What you have here is a person who may or may not have previous convictions or be known to police or social services, who is repeatedly touching children and making them cry, against the wishes of both children and parents. And she’s continuing to do it after repeatedly being told to stop. That in itself is enough reason to tell her she can’t volunteer any more.

Coming back to the matter of SEN - it may be the reason for her behaviour but it’s not an excuse for ignoring safeguarding around children. The welfare and safety of the children has to come first. She clearly doesn’t understand consent or boundaries so it’s inappropriate for her to be working with children.

If the problem volunteer does get asked to leave the role she may either start the waterworks or just laugh.

I hope she doesn't start problematic attention seeking behaviours i.e. hanging round outside when the group is meeting, bad mouthing group members in the neighbourhood etc etc.

*he clearly doesn’t understand consent or boundaries so it’s inappropriate for her to be working with children.

I'll caption that again:

She clearly doesn’t understand consent or boundaries so it’s inappropriate for her to be working with children.

Sums it up in one sentence.

'You ignore my instructions and this has led to distress for the mothers, the children and me. I think it's best if you find some other voluntary work, you are not suited to this and I won't allow it to continue.'

This is good.

I will add OP, you need to act on this very quickly before she does something that causes a serious issue with one of the parents. I’m not sure whether you’ve done the group completely off your own back or in conjunction with an organisation, but if I attended as a parent and a volunteer picked my distressed child up after I expressly asked them not to (or did so without consent), I’d be escalating that to you and if it wasn’t dealt with appropriately considering where else I could report it to. Not every parent will shrug their shoulders and go ‘ah well, the group isn’t for me’ and walk away. I have experience in safeguarding and if I came across a group where a volunteer was ignoring consent and touching children without their parents’ permission/against their say-so I’d be very concerned and considering taking it further.

She’s a liability. If you’re going to run the group you really do need to get used to the fact that volunteers need managing.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting op should just carry on just because the woman has additional needs - clearly the situation needs to change.

Everything AthollPlace has said.

I’m really glad you’ve asked for advice OP and not just continued letting this run, lacking confidence in how to address it.

You don't sound like you have proper policies and structures in place for volunteers and for your organisation. Do you? Is she even DBS checked? Are you insured?

If you have a proper volunteer recruitment process with references, and an induction with a trial period and clear code of conduct then these structures support you to make difficult conversations easier. Tbh the way you are talking about the issue is as if it's a personal problem with a friennd, but it's not. I think you need to get more professional and robust in your set up - even voluntary groups need structures and processes, especially if as you say people are paying money for this service.

Upthread DC3dilemma had a nice clear script:

thanks for the help you’ve given us recently. We’re now up to full numbers on helpers for all tasks and won’t be needing you after today. I’ll send xxx organisation a message so they know you need a new opportunity. Good luck Clear and to the point.

It's a learning process organising anything OP and well done for setting up the group. Don't overthink this any more than you need to. Use the above and stop her coming to any more sessions. If she objects, just rinse and repeat. And for a bit of extra support tell the person who brought her along that this has not been appropriate and they need to back you up with this.
Good luck.

OP, whatever happens with this lady, it's clear the situation you've taken on doesn't have appropriate arrangements for managing volunteers. You need to pick up on this and start creating clarity for them and you - they definitely have a DBS check, they have a list of what is expected from them, they have a list of what they can expect from you, there is training provided, a code of conduct (in your case, mums cuddle the babies - you don't. You get to make the tea and alert parents to poor behaviour etc.). It may be that this lady wasn't clearly told what was expected from her, or it may be she was and she's taking advantage.

Either sit down with her and outline the concerns you and others have raised, and limit what she can do and make sure she sticks to the limited list, or ask her to leave as she's overstepping boundaries and upsetting parents.

OP needs to learn from this and make it clear to volunteers right from the start what is required. It is not fair to take on a volunteer with apparent enthusiasm only to summarily dismiss them a few weeks later.

I also think the "you ignored my instructions and have led to upset for the mother's........

is perfect.

Groups like these can be such a valuable lifeline to mothers, it is simply unfair for her to continue.

Some mothers going to the group could be vulnerable and it might take a lot of effort for them to join one.

Some woman being unsympathetic, repeatedly picking up their child or upsetting their child is simply not acceptable.

I certainly wouldn't bother returning if I was one of these women.

Who needs the irritation of that volunteer.

Yes I agree with pp who said they’d report you to the authorities if a volunteer was clearly abusing their position to touch children without consent. For the safety of everyone involved it needs to stop. This would be an excellent point to reconsider your volunteer policies, safeguarding and insurance.

To be honest I think you’re on shakey ground with her anyway. By the sounds of things, you didn’t really know this person (who is using the group for her own needs) to help run a group with small children. From the fact you haven’t answered other posters, I’m assuming no DBS/references. Like other posters have alluded to, you have put yourself at risk by not having proper policies for volunteers. You can’t just have anyone in to volunteer with children.

She isn't volunteering. She won't take on a role which constitutes volunteering. She's just hanging around the joint, pleasing herself.
I'm sorry OP but I would leave your group, as a mother. The only reason I go to our local group is for my toddler's sake, some woman picking him up and not listening to or respecting his needs is a no-no for me. I'd be really angry if it happened more than once and we would stop attending.

I think you'd have to politely tell her that it was very kind of her to volunteer but it's not working out and maybe she'd do better with a different group.

Either that or change the day the playgroup is on, and don't tell her - but that's not the right way to do it, of course!

I had similar problems with a volunteer last year (Different area) but we just stopped calling her to help out and thankfully she stopped asking. It was a major problem with her though - nearly had to get the school involved to deal with it but luckily she stopped coming.

Sorry you're having these issues - it is a nightmare!

YADNBU

What Atholl said plus she needs to be able to follow instructions and rules or she is at the least a health and safety nightmare which , and god the poor kids and mums.. they need the group for their own wellbeing so its a bit shit if many are put off coming to the group just to accommodate this one person who just does not have the right skills for the role.

She might be lonely but it really sound like she needs to find a social group where she is a client rather than 'staff'.

Just be firm and say there have been many instances (have a list ready) where she has not followed clear instructions and this is unacceptable. Don't be apologetic, just calm and clear.