AIBU to be really pissed off with EU countries?

[FloatingObject]

This isn;t a general Brexit debate, this is about the rights of foreign nationals NOT being reciprocated as it was claimed they would be.

You know it's serious when the Guardian finally bites the bullet and publishes what it doesn't want to publish. For reference: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/14/britons-in-europe-face-citizens-rights-lottery-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit

I cannot believe that for settled status (which is free to apply for via an app) all you have to do is show proof of address and that you're not a criminal.

Meanwhile, here in France (for example), they're not taking applications, it'll cost over 200 quid, all by old-school paper, involving proof of income, etc etc.

I love this country (France), I'm not a huge earner but higher than average, I pay high taxes, I volunteer. I feel as if the countries of the EU (with the exception of Ireland, see article) are completely using us as pawns. I get that Brexit is a complete fucking mess that nobody wants. But that's not our fault. We're people who have made commitments to our host countries. We should be treated the same way EU nationals in the UK are being treated. I have a French friend in the UK who doesn't even give a crap about Brexit, she applied for her settled status and has moved on, her big thing is the climate change stuff. This isn't even on her radar. If the reverse was happening there'd be complete fucking outrage in the UK, and cries of "this is just despicable, these are peoples LIVES!!!!"

Sorry for the rant, but I just think although obviously given my situation (and also my politics) I am anti Brexit, I think this is a really poor show from EU countries, and I think the EU could have come up with a collective solution for British nationals already living in the EU, that would apply across the board. It's not their problem, but neither is it ours. /rant over

Meanwhile, here in France (for example), they're not taking applications, it'll cost over 200 quid, all by old-school paper, involving proof of income, etc etc.

That's not true though. In places where there are loads of Brits eg Dordogne, they had to stop accepting applications because of the volume, but its been working fine elsewhere. The system is now online across France, with just one final in person visit to complete the process.

@SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated
I want to clarify, it is not anyone from my friends, but generally from the community.
I am saying that not all EU immigrants come from the same "EU" inclusive culture, and that there are many closeted views that are not really discussed outside the mono-ethnic community. It is by no means a universal view held by everyone - but from my own (very extensive) experience, it is a majority view.
Even where no one says this aloud, the attitudes are quite clear. For example, women who marry to a person of a different race start to be excluded from the community social activities here in the UK (fairs and festivals, charity events, playgroups etc). Their children are perceived to be immediately less intelligent and more disruptive due to being more brown and curly-haired compared to their peer Slavs. A teacher in our native language class once openly said about a mixed race child attending - well we have to accept them due to the political correctness going mad in this country. I've seen it happen more than once, and it does not usually originate from someone who is an uneducated car washer. It is like 1950s in America, where otherwise perfectly "nice" people could have held some quite shocking views.
I have a good Indian friend, and when we discussed this, she admitted that the same is going behind the close doors in their wider community - majority of people would be horrified at the idea of an Indian woman marrying a black man (her situation, and she was disowned by the majority of her family - who are all highly educated and second generation immigrants).
I hope I did not offend anyone, I am just explaining my own experience (and reasons why I try to distance myself from a lot of my compatriots).

I don't know what info you're getting from the UK, but it's really not that simple to get settled status. My husband doesn't have British nationality; he came here from another EU country 15 years ago. He works, pays a lot of tax, married me, owns a house, we have children who have British citizenship (I'm British). And he hasn't got settled status yet. Although part of me thinks "seriously, there's nothing to worry about. Only an idiot would deport him", there's still part of me that thinks the government is THAT inept that my husband could be deported. And I'm not sure his country would have me and my kids.

@Puzzledbyart

Thank you for acknowledging my experience, rather than dismissing it because it doesn’t fit the narrative of “the British are racist, EU citizens are not racist” that is prevalent on this thread.

The fact that some posters are obviously confused and upset that British people of colour are entitled to British citizenship but white Europeans aren’t, just makes them look racist and they should take some time to reflect on their attitude.

I don't see anyone dismissing @Mackerz experience...
I also don't see anyone saying "the British are racist, EU citizens are not racist* or that people would be "confused and upset that British people of colour are entitled to British citizenship but white Europeans aren’t"...

@Puzzledbyart I still don't agree that these are a mainstream opinions amongst Eastern Europeans living in UK in general.
Obviously there are some bad apples. These bad apples are usually easily spotted. Haven't learned the language and don't have any acquaintances outside of their little family (not even community often). And god forbid you try to feed them foreign food😂

Mackerz obviously what happened to you is inexcusable, horrible and should be reported as a hate crime/ incident. It is unacceptable that anyone has experiences like that in the Europe if 2019, yet sadly such things do happen. I hope you reported what happened to the police.

However it's completely random to extrapolate that to your post of 10:34 claiming that posters on this thread have an opinion that not a single poster has expressed.

Being in favour of EU freedom of movement is unconnected to the fact that obviously skin colour has absolutely no relevance to citizenship rights. Absolutely nobody on this thread has even tangentially implied that they hold the opinions you claim are obvious.

Your 10:34 post is really quite random unless you're claiming that because you experienced racism from one group of men who appeared to be from Poland and Bulgaria, all EU citizens are guilty by association of being racist and freedom of movement should be stopped... That is a sweeping and inaccurate generalisation, a negative stereotype, and some might say also racist, or at least xenophobic.

Unfortunately being the victim of racism doesn't stop you being racist yourself, any more than being the victim of any other crime or horrible treatment prevents you committing the same crime or treating someone else in the same horrible way.

@another
You are the one extrapolating.

@SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated
Dismissed my experience, because it didn’t fit her narrative.

@Anothernotherone

“Your 10:34 post is really quite random unless you're claiming that because you experienced racism from one group of men who appeared to be from Poland and Bulgaria, all EU citizens are guilty by association of being racist and freedom of movement should be stopped... That is a sweeping and inaccurate generalisation, a negative stereotype, and some might say also racist, or at least xenophobic.“

You extrapolated nonsense from what I actually said and then accused me of being racist - based on what you imagined I said.

YABU. Customs/political decisions taken by a country always impact its citizens, whether they approved the decision or not.

@SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated
My opinion is based on ~10 years of being very closely involved with, and belonging to, this particular demographic in the UK. I appreciate that there's always a bias towards negativity, as good behaviour is usually less visible than bad behaviour. But I consciously chose to somewhat distance my children from my own cultural bubble here in the UK - precisely because of the prevalence of right or far-right views there.

Either we are British and our government is responsible for us or we are not British and the referendum result doesn't affect us. You can't have it both ways. And I do think we should be compensated. We are having our rights taken away and our lives turned upside down because our government decided to have a referendum that we weren't allowed to vote in. That's anti-democratic.

Agree 1000%. Also, no taxation without representation. The UK government is responsible for me being 100% disenfranchised, so it should either take steps to ensure I have a right to vote somewhere or pay my taxes for me.

OnlyFoolsnMothers

The Eastern block that doesn't exist anymore...? 🤷🏻‍♀️
And once again, Bulgaria and Poland are not the same country (at all).
Just like Italy and Denmark aren't the same. Even though they were both on the 'Western side' 4of the Iron curtain...

@frauflamingo

Are you paying income tax in the UK? If you are then yes you should have the right to vote.

If you chose to go and live in another country and pay tax there then perhaps you should be arguing for voting rights in that country instead. No taxation without representation, after all.

@Mackerz I did not. I said that it is not ok and that no one no matter what colour or sex should be attacked

It sounds to me like several posters have tried to invalidate the experience of racism suffered by a person of colour. If you are white then you just don’t get it, sorry.

@SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated
@alredy
@CravingCheese
@snemorata

Have all tried to invalidate it. Even if you have said it shouldn’t happen you have then gone on to say get over it.

@Anothernotherone has even gone sat far as to suggest the poster is racist for even mentioning it.

Can someone explain to me how the hell did I try to invalidate it???

Are you paying income tax in the UK? If you are then yes you should have the right to vote.

Well that's as maybe, but for now, just paying tax does not automatically enfranchise someone. (I would be curious to know how this plays out in the United "no taxation without representation" States of America, these days

Can someone explain to me how the hell did I try to invalidate it???
Yes. I would like to know this too!

Are you paying income tax in the UK? If you are then yes you should have the right to vote.
Plenty of non -tax payers have the right to vote. What you should be asking is "are you materially affected by the result?" If so, you should have the right to vote. Also I am very sympathetic to EU citizens in the UK but I think disenfranchising UK citizens in a vote on what rights UK citizens have is indefensible.

Have all tried to invalidate it. Even if you have said it shouldn’t happen you have then gone on to say get over it.

@RitalsMyHero

When did I tell you to 'get over it'? Or invalidated your experience?

And no, pointing out the difference between Poland and Bulgaria isn't me 'telling you to get over it'...

@cravingcheese

You aren’t telling me anything!

@SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated
@alredy
@CravingCheese
@snemorata

Have all tried to invalidate it. Even if you have said it shouldn’t happen you have then gone on to say get over it.

@Anothernotherone has even gone sat far as to suggest the poster is racist for even mentioning it.

??

@cravingcheese

You are mixing me up with another poster. You didn’t tell me to get over anything, or invalidate my experience. You also didn’t (patronisingly, as that’s the time you subconsciously take when speaking to a brown person) point out that Poland and Bulgaria are different countries, to me, either.