AIBU to be really pissed off with EU countries?

[FloatingObject]

This isn;t a general Brexit debate, this is about the rights of foreign nationals NOT being reciprocated as it was claimed they would be.

You know it's serious when the Guardian finally bites the bullet and publishes what it doesn't want to publish. For reference: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/14/britons-in-europe-face-citizens-rights-lottery-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit

I cannot believe that for settled status (which is free to apply for via an app) all you have to do is show proof of address and that you're not a criminal.

Meanwhile, here in France (for example), they're not taking applications, it'll cost over 200 quid, all by old-school paper, involving proof of income, etc etc.

I love this country (France), I'm not a huge earner but higher than average, I pay high taxes, I volunteer. I feel as if the countries of the EU (with the exception of Ireland, see article) are completely using us as pawns. I get that Brexit is a complete fucking mess that nobody wants. But that's not our fault. We're people who have made commitments to our host countries. We should be treated the same way EU nationals in the UK are being treated. I have a French friend in the UK who doesn't even give a crap about Brexit, she applied for her settled status and has moved on, her big thing is the climate change stuff. This isn't even on her radar. If the reverse was happening there'd be complete fucking outrage in the UK, and cries of "this is just despicable, these are peoples LIVES!!!!"

Sorry for the rant, but I just think although obviously given my situation (and also my politics) I am anti Brexit, I think this is a really poor show from EU countries, and I think the EU could have come up with a collective solution for British nationals already living in the EU, that would apply across the board. It's not their problem, but neither is it ours. /rant over

Bulgaria is part of the Eastern Bloc!

People voted for and against Brexit for their own personal reasons. You can’t be angry at someone who has never met you before and voted to leave because it was their personal choice because your situation had been worsened by it.

Oh, yes, I can! Fuck them and their bullshit. Screw them to the damn wall. I don't give a toss about them or theirs, they didn't about me or mine. If there is another indy ref in Scotland I'm voting yes. Sovereign and shit.

Driedlimes - I talk about every time the referendum is said to be democratic. It was not!! Unfortunately I have been told several times that as British citizens abroad we had abandoned our country anyway and didn't deserve a vote.

Molteni objecting to immigration policies because they're not "fair" is pissing into the wind. No country has a blanket policy of long term preferential treatment for prospective immigrants who need the most help. Most countries have points system immigration which favours the more educated with savings - the wealthy.

Immigration policies are never selfless long term, though there are occasionally short term big gestures.

National administrations, exactly like corporations, don't make choices based on a "to each according to their need, from each according to their ability" basis and never have. Expecting that is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Bulgaria is part of the Eastern Bloc!

There is no Eastern Bloc anymore...

It was the UK's choice to leave the EU, and it is in its economic interests to give concessions to EU citizens working in the UK. EU countries didn't choose this ridiculous mess, and are perfectly entitled to deal with immigration issues in whatever way suits them. Blame the Conservatives and UKIP/the Brexit party, not the EU.

Anothernotherone

Expecting that is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I know I’m an idealist, and very aware that not many people share my point of view. Although in this case I’m not trying to save the world; I’m just stating my preference for a bit more humanity for those who really need it. I’m pro-EU, but one of my biggest issues is the immigration policy. In that light, it’s hard to muster sympathy for people complaining that they have to follow normal procedures. A couple of hundred euros and (sometimes tedious) paper work. Especially if you mention paying taxes; hardly an achievement – I don’t see why anybody would bring that up.

Molteni I agree paying taxes is compulsory, hardly something to boast about unless you voluntarily paid extra on top of what was demanded of you, and I never understood why so many MN talk about paying taxes (or the special MN boast "I'm a higher rate tax payer" which comes with thi e implication that this should, if there were any justice in the world, convey VIP queue jumping privilege and a seperate lounge at government departments) as if it's something special.

However the complaints about brurocracy and cost for settled come because it's a change which brings no benefits, only problems. It's being asked to pay and jump through extensive, time consuming, often complex hoops for something inferior to what you had for free without any hoop jumping.

Changes for the worse will always draw bitter complaints. Having something good and free replaced with something inferior, expensive, and complicated is what people are complaining about. That's human nature.

Previous process of EU settlement in the UK was similar to what you describe for France.
It is more than a proof of address - my nanny was refused settled status, and she's been in the country for more than 15 years. I am (very reluctantly, I must add) paying for a lawyer for her to appeal, but its complicated, as her English is not at the level where she understands what the lawyer explains, so it requires a massive investment of my time intrepreting back and forth too.
The Home Office spend ridiculous money on the app development, and it was down for longer periods of time this year than up and running. They had to process close to 4m people (not only EU nationals, their current and former family members also apply through the app now), so it made sense to digitalise the process - I can see how a country with ~100K resident British nationals could think that the R&D cost is not justified.

Can you imagine the complete OUTRAGE if EU nationals were required to be fingerprinted in exchange for settled status?
The app is reading biometrics from the chip in the passport (including fingerprints) and you have to scan your face for the facial recognition database.
I doubt there would be an outrage though. Many EU countries have similar national procedures, it is only Britain (and Ireland, I think) who are strangely sensitive about any form of citizens id.

I’ve got an anecdote too - I’m mixed race and I was standing at a bus stop with my colleague who happens to wear a head scarf when four men pulled up in a Polish registered car shouting and gesturing, one of them spat at us
This is unfortunately true, the attitude towards Brexit-related immigration paperwork amongst many Eastern Europeans is "I can't believe they are letting all these [insert a preferred racial slur] stay and ask us, white Christian people, to leave." Heard this not from "car washers" mentioned upthread - but from nurses, teachers, accountants, engineers.
I can totally see where you are coming from, and yes, it us a concern.

Can you imagine the complete OUTRAGE if EU nationals were required to be fingerprinted in exchange for settled status? Its fucking ridiculous.

Ell Oh Ell.

Tell that to the Windrush generation and their children!

I had to travel to another city to have my fingerprints taken, in order to have my British citizenahip officially acknowledged. I was born here, and I am the daughter of a Britizen citizen!

I can't believe they are letting all these [insert a preferred racial slur] stay and ask us, white Christian people, to leave." Heard this not from "car washers" mentioned upthread - but from nurses, teachers, accountants, engineers.

I know people from all EU countries and have never heard any of them to say that. Nor have I heard it on any of the community forums. There is always some racist dick (Which group doesn't have them), but I simply don't believe you have heard it that much. Most people who come here, especially educated ones, actually like the multiculturalism here.
What you may have heard that much was a question of why Commonwealth citizens could vote in referendum but EU ones even with Permanent Resident status (akin to ILR) could not.

P.S. even if you are merely applying for Indefinite Leave to Remain, the UK Home Office still requires your fingerprints.

Google "biometrics UK Home Office" or something. They basically require them for everything.

They indeed do @JamieVardysHavingAParty

@SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated
These are quite mainstream views, but people learned not to discuss them with native British friends.
I am "one of them", i.e. Eastern European, so there's no filter - they automatically assume I subscribe to the same view.
One of most popular questions on one of the biggest EE diaspora facebook parenting groups is "How's school X? Do you have lots of [insert]?" And people share their children's class photos to prove that the school is nice and white. The horror of the horrors is if the teacher is black, posts like that attract hundreds of commentaries with condolences.

I am an EU immigrant...

@SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated
So am I, but from a country where such views are mainstream.
Britain First has their leaflets translated into Polish, and has Polish language Facebook groups. Not French, Dutch or German. Why do you think that is?

Just checked, it is actually EDL not Britain First, by my point still stands.

I am also from country where racism is rife. I also helped on one of the biggest forums for expats (in the UK) from that country (actually 2). Only racism, which was promptly dealt with came from people who themselves claimed to leave that country due to racism🙄 The irony...
You might want to change friends. I am not denying racism from eu immigrants doesn't exist, but your post made it sound like it's a supper common thing in here. It's not.

Yeah. EDL moved from "We hate everyone" to "We hate muslims" a while back. I was astounded to see I could actually join them.😮

SafetyAdvice0FeedWhenAgitated

At this point, I feel that if the Home Office could introduce an individual application process for using public toilets in the UK, they would, and they'd demand we had our biometrics done for it.

If they're not demanding that EU nationals do so for this, it's probably the UK's system can't cope with processing all the biometric data. I was going to say that it might be because the Home Office had the data already, but that's never stopped them asking for a piece of evidence another three times.

I was going to say that it might be because the Home Office had the data already, but that's never stopped them asking for a piece of evidence another three times.
😂 Yeah