AIBU to be really pissed off with EU countries?

[FloatingObject]

This isn;t a general Brexit debate, this is about the rights of foreign nationals NOT being reciprocated as it was claimed they would be.

You know it's serious when the Guardian finally bites the bullet and publishes what it doesn't want to publish. For reference: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/14/britons-in-europe-face-citizens-rights-lottery-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit

I cannot believe that for settled status (which is free to apply for via an app) all you have to do is show proof of address and that you're not a criminal.

Meanwhile, here in France (for example), they're not taking applications, it'll cost over 200 quid, all by old-school paper, involving proof of income, etc etc.

I love this country (France), I'm not a huge earner but higher than average, I pay high taxes, I volunteer. I feel as if the countries of the EU (with the exception of Ireland, see article) are completely using us as pawns. I get that Brexit is a complete fucking mess that nobody wants. But that's not our fault. We're people who have made commitments to our host countries. We should be treated the same way EU nationals in the UK are being treated. I have a French friend in the UK who doesn't even give a crap about Brexit, she applied for her settled status and has moved on, her big thing is the climate change stuff. This isn't even on her radar. If the reverse was happening there'd be complete fucking outrage in the UK, and cries of "this is just despicable, these are peoples LIVES!!!!"

Sorry for the rant, but I just think although obviously given my situation (and also my politics) I am anti Brexit, I think this is a really poor show from EU countries, and I think the EU could have come up with a collective solution for British nationals already living in the EU, that would apply across the board. It's not their problem, but neither is it ours. /rant over

@Mackerz some countries already legislated rights of UK citizens after Brexit. That's more than some free settled status imho. I would rather pay that 75 like for residence card before and knew what my rights really will be, than free status but who the fuck knows if I will be able to keep voting in local elections and such.

You do realise how the UK treats non-EU nationals who want to live in the UK, do you knot? There are strict income requirements and a whole lot more, hoops to jump through and expensive visas

YES! This has been my whole issue with the EU open door immigration policy, we have favoured people from the EU based on nothing but geography and in turn had to penalise non EU immigrants in an attempt to keep down numbers.

As someone who lives and works in Portugal, my life is here now. I can't speak for other EU countries but over here the process is pretty each.

I applied for my residence with the first month of moving (you can do it 3 months after you arrive), they are very helpful at the local council office and gave me a list of things i needed. I had to set up a NIF number (tax ID), have an address, a bank account, show that i had a way of supporting myself either with a job here or money coming into the account etc... The grand total of this, €25. €15 went on the residence and €10 went on something else to validate my address, all done around 3 years ago.
The cost of changing my driving licence, either €5 from the local GP or a private consultation of around €40 and then €30 at the local IMT office. So all in all I'm legal here for less than €100

@onlyfoolsandmothers

I and a lot of my friends agree with you.

I am in an Eu country and have spent the last 3 years sorting myself out. This has cost lots of time money and effort. I blame (in descending order) David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Jacob RM, Nigel Farage, Theresa May, the ERG, Brexity MPs, the Mainstream media and lastly Brexit voters. I do not blame the EU at all.

That is so interesting to me to hear a woman say on here, that a french friend was abused because of her accent in the UK.

I have also been abused because of my accent, and it made me afraid to open my mouth to people that I didn't know for weeks.

PLEASE think twice before you abuse a foreigner in the U.K.
Your words will be said in two minutes, but they will stay in that person's head for months. And they will definitely cry at home.

Even now, I am afraid to open my mouth in the U.K in public sometimes.

And I was BORN in the U.K - which is how stupid racism is.

People move around - people move around different countries.

Can i just say that racism is incredibly incredibly hurtful. Please think twice before you say something to someone

I’m caught up in this too.

My fathers coming over to the country I’m living in. He’s a Brexiteer. Didn’t think of me Dad did you?!

We should make ourselves visible to the people who voted leave. They honestly don’t see any ill effects.

YABU

OnlyFoolsnMothers Not based on nothing but geography, based on a series of reciprocal treaties.

Countries have always negotiated different visas / visa wavers / rights for their citizens among themselves.

The UK has 6 month visa waver agreements with lots of non EU countries - not all non EU countries are treated identically.

Negotiating reciprocal mutually beneficial arrangements about population movement/ travel rights has long been normal. It's not based on proximity but on treaties and negotiation and an assumption of mutual benefit.

@GCAcademic

Citizen's advice is also quickly becoming an expert and will help sort it then and there in their offices (for as far as you've got the docs needed obviously). At the very least they will get her application started and get her pre-settled status.

I haven’t RTWT, but I hope somebody has pointed out that reciprocal arrangements for UK and RoI citizens are entirely out with the EU, in fact they pre date the EU.

YES! This has been my whole issue with the EU open door immigration policy, we have favoured people from the EU based on nothing but geography and in turn had to penalise non EU immigrants in an attempt to keep down numbers.

The problem with this argument is the 'had to' part. The UK chose not to bother attempting to remove most EU nationals who were here illegally and chose to make many (not all) non-EU visa categories stricter instead. We weren't forced.

@DGRossetti That's not true. How did you think Le Pen ended up in the presidential race? I live in Le Pen territory, a region where they voted Front National. And my partner's family and friends are all massively and bafflingly into the idea of a Frexit, as are many of the gilets jaunes. You should be careful of echo chambers, they're dangerous things. I'll never forget when my Mum texted me to ask if I was going to stay up to see the referendum results come through (at the time I was living in the UK). I said no, because to me it was pretty much a given. I'll never forget that morning when I woke up, I went straight to the Guardian and saw the result. I was completely shocked, just because I and none of my friends or even people I'd spoken to down the pubs or whatever were Leavers.

People voted for and against Brexit for their own personal reasons. You can’t be angry at someone who has never met you before and voted to leave because it was their personal choice because your situation had been worsened by it. The vote happened just before I left the U.K. I voted to leave and my main reason for doing so was because I was sick and tired of people who don’t live in the U.K., who aren’t British, who have no interests in the U.K. telling the U.K. how to run the country. You are now expecting the IK yo tell France how to run their country. That’s exactly what I voted against.

But it seems many people make it their business to tell others how to do their business. I’ve lost count of how many people I’ve met who’ve never lived in the USA but feel they are the expert on everything here and love to tell me everything that’s wrong with the USA, when in fact they don’t even know what they are talking about or why things are done the way they are done.

If you’ve chosen to live in another country, you’ve chosen to accept their way of doing things. And things change.

Personally I'm going to try and skip the residency permit and try and go straight for citizenship. It's all such a mess, I really feel for people on both sides of the equation. I also feel for British people in the UK, as an example a friend of mine just found out that in the event of a no deal, he basically will no longer be able to provide his services to his clients in Germany. So that's a person's livelihood completely fucked.

YES! This has been my whole issue with the EU open door immigration policy, we have favoured people from the EU based on nothing but geography and in turn had to penalise non EU immigrants in an attempt to keep down numbers.

The U.K. is in charge of its own immigration laws and made it that way for non-EU citizens. Because it chose to do something different from other EU countries is not the fault of the EU. I could move to France as an American and it is still way cheaper than what it cost me to move to the U.K.

@BritWifeinUSA Amazing. So you voted on an issue that is going to have massive repercussions for the people left behind in Europe, and then fucked off to America. Also, your point doesn't even makes sense. I'm talking about what was supposed to be reciprocal arrangements, not whether people are allowed an opinion on current affairs in countries they don't know.

A foreign national in a foreign country has to spend £200. So what?

BritWifeinUSA slow handclap, now Trump will be able to tell the UK what to do without the reciprocity or the veto the UK had in the EU, but I expect that's fine with you given where you've emigrated to.

@BritWifeinUSA

Yet, you did the exact same thing and left.

I was sick and tired of people who don’t live in the U.K., who aren’t British, who have no interests in the U.K. telling the U.K. how to run the country.
So people who live in a country should integrate (if they are foreign) and participate in the running of the country? OK, got you.

If you’ve chosen to live in another country, you’ve chosen to accept their way of doing things.
So actually it doesn't matter how much you integrate, you will always be a foreigner and should accept that other people will decide how the country should be run?

Either you don't make any sense or you are a hypocrite.

Who would pick up the cost, not to mention sort the admin for quantifying (and possibly removing some) every EU national after 3 months of moving here. Most "illegals" are over stayers.

We arent in charge of our boarders when low skilled migrants from primarily eastern europe can come over and work LEGALLY in low skilled jobs....put their kids through the state school system and use the NHS...all legally!
It works when it is reciprocal but the countries in the EU are no longer of equally standing- economically or socially.

You had a choice in it, you could vote, your French friend didn't. Blame those who voted not those who are dealing with the outcome.

OnlyFoolsnMothers - if you are going to look at this purely in economic terms, we gain more than we lose by having EU workers in the UK. (And I am not saying that economic reasons trump other reasons but you cannot say that it is not economically advantageous for the UK to have EU migrants - they contribute more than Brits!).
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-workers-uk-tax-treasury-brexit-migrants-british-citizens-a8542506.html