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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be really pissed off with EU countries?

230 replies

FloatingObject · 14/10/2019 19:26

This isn;t a general Brexit debate, this is about the rights of foreign nationals NOT being reciprocated as it was claimed they would be.

You know it's serious when the Guardian finally bites the bullet and publishes what it doesn't want to publish. For reference: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/14/britons-in-europe-face-citizens-rights-lottery-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit

I cannot believe that for settled status (which is free to apply for via an app) all you have to do is show proof of address and that you're not a criminal.

Meanwhile, here in France (for example), they're not taking applications, it'll cost over 200 quid, all by old-school paper, involving proof of income, etc etc.

I love this country (France), I'm not a huge earner but higher than average, I pay high taxes, I volunteer. I feel as if the countries of the EU (with the exception of Ireland, see article) are completely using us as pawns. I get that Brexit is a complete fucking mess that nobody wants. But that's not our fault. We're people who have made commitments to our host countries. We should be treated the same way EU nationals in the UK are being treated. I have a French friend in the UK who doesn't even give a crap about Brexit, she applied for her settled status and has moved on, her big thing is the climate change stuff. This isn't even on her radar. If the reverse was happening there'd be complete fucking outrage in the UK, and cries of "this is just despicable, these are peoples LIVES!!!!"

Sorry for the rant, but I just think although obviously given my situation (and also my politics) I am anti Brexit, I think this is a really poor show from EU countries, and I think the EU could have come up with a collective solution for British nationals already living in the EU, that would apply across the board. It's not their problem, but neither is it ours. /rant over

OP posts:
ImNotYourGranny · 15/10/2019 13:31

YABU The UK government has so far refused to write protection for EU citizens into primary law. Settled Status is derived from a statutory instrument and is therefore subject to the whim of government.

Plus as a British EU migrant and having seen the treatment some EU migrants are receiving back in the UK, I bloody hope my host country doesn't reciprocate in how they treat us.

Damntheman · 15/10/2019 13:35

EU citizens in the UK are being treated like absolute shit, so are third-party foreign nationals in the UK. The UK right now is just a horrible place to be for everyone. This is not Europe's fault! This is Brexit and the blame for it lies solidly on the shoulders of those who voted for brexit and our succession of shitty PMs.

ThatMuppetShow · 15/10/2019 13:37

Do you have any awareness of the hoops people have to go through to get a visa in another country?

the point is the change of circumstances - fine when you know from the start, but when everything is turned upside down, it's not that easy.

Damntheman · 15/10/2019 13:39

I'm a British migrant abroad, not in the EU admittedly but I settled under EU rules here. I consider myself incredibly fortunate that my country has already made a deal with the UK in the event of no deal, but I still find the whole situation incredibly stressful and uncertain and I hold a lot of anger. That anger however is directed at Parliament for not stopping this nonsense, and at the people who STILL insist brexit is a good idea despite all the evidence to the contrary.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 15/10/2019 13:41

EU citizens in the UK are being treated like absolute shit can I ask how so? Havent we offered a free application for settled status?

WhatchaMaCalllit · 15/10/2019 13:42

@FloatingObject - two points if you will allow me.

Point 1 in relation to this comment in your opening post -
I think the EU could have come up with a collective solution for British nationals already living in the EU, that would apply across the board.
There is. It's called the Common Travel Area if you're travelling between the UK and Ireland, Isle of Man, Guernsey or Jersey (and vice versa) or Schengen Area or Citizens Rights Directive 2004, depending on starting and ending points of your journey.
The UK Prime Minister decided to introduce red-lines and one of these was the travel arrangement when Brexit was passed and Mrs May made her announcement in the House of Commons. It was (and still is) possible to leave the EU and still keep these 'nice to have's' if you like.

Point 2 in relation to this comment in your opening post -

It's not their problem, but neither is it ours
You are 100% correct on the first part of this sentence and 100% wrong on the second part of this point, it is entirely the problem of the UK's making. The EU will still allow citizens of it's member states travel freely with little or no obstruction. When it comes to passport controls, UK citizens will no longer be able to join the queue where the EU flag is, they have to go through the red channel (I'd imagine).

I know that when I travel to the USA on holidays (doesn't happen often), there are forms to be filled out prior to visiting the US, there are immigration officers at the airport and I have to answer questions before I can board the plane. I would imagine that something similar will be set up in respective EU countries for UK citizens to have to use before being allowed to enter. Similarly, Brexit was all about the UK taking back control of its borders - isn't determining citizenship one of those messy subjects that Brexit was dealing with??

Newearringsplease · 15/10/2019 13:46

You're the one who decided to leave and set up a life in another country how are you our problem

ThatMuppetShow · 15/10/2019 13:50

You're the one who decided to leave and set up a life in another country how are you our problem

good grief there's always one. Sadly probably with the right to vote!

ImNotYourGranny · 15/10/2019 13:54

EU citizens in the UK are being treated like absolute shit can I ask how so? Havent we offered a free application for settled status?

And so far about 50% of those who have applied for settled status have been refused.

Jaxhog · 15/10/2019 13:55

Welcome to the Post Brexit world. I don't know why anyone would be surprised. The EU doesn't want us to go, so why would they make it easy (or cheap)?

byt, this isn't that expensive. I had to pay that much just to get a passport for the other country I already have a second nationality with. Nevermind how much I paid to get nationality in the first place!

ImNotYourGranny · 15/10/2019 13:57

You're the one who decided to leave and set up a life in another country how are you our problem

And this is why the UK is in such a mess. Too many people don't give a shit about anyone else.

longwayoff · 15/10/2019 13:58

Only Brexit to blame for this. You won't be an EU citizen, your rights have been voted away by your own country. I understand you're supposed to be grateful for this. Democracy! Sovereignty! Fabulous isn't it?

smemorata · 15/10/2019 13:59

You're the one who decided to leave and set up a life in another country how are you our problem
Because we're British citizens. If you dont want to be responsible for us don't take away our rights and then tell us to shut up.
Out of interest, have you always lived in exactly the same place? If not, why not?

finitemonkeys · 15/10/2019 13:59

I've got 3 friends from the EU who've all lived in the UK for over 20 years, paying taxes and national insurance throughout.

Only one of them has been able to successfully register to settle. One was rejected - no idea why, she's waiting to find out what her options are and she's hoping that happens before 31st October. The other hasn't even managed to apply - the site puts people in a queue before being able to apply and he's hasn't yet managed to submit a successful application without multiple error messages and the assisted digital service only applies to visa tiers 1, 2 and 4.

There's almost 3 million EU nationals in the UK who contribute to the economy by paying taxes, NI and spending their wages in the UK's retail economy. Having seen how my friends have been treated, our government is making it very clear that their continued presence and contributions to the UK are not valued or wanted.

OP - I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. But the whole thing's become a horrible mess, triggered by a knee-jerk reaction and ending up in a nightmare for pretty much everyone - whatever side of the channel you're standing on.

The only bright spot in it all is that once we're out, it'll all be sorted out and finished, we'll never have to deal with interminable trade and custom negotiations and everything will have been prepared for and dealt with adequately, and EU Nationals in the UK/UK Nationals in the EU will all have had their settlement statuses resolved and finally get peace of mind. Apparently. Hmm

FeckOffGraham · 15/10/2019 14:00

your rights have been voted away by your own country. I understand you're supposed to be grateful for this.

😂😂😂

But also Sad.

Damntheman · 15/10/2019 14:01

EU citizens in the UK are being treated like absolute shit can I ask how so? Havent we offered a free application for settled status?
Do you not read the news at all?

Velveteenfruitbowl · 15/10/2019 14:05

They have every right to conduct their immigration controls how they wish. You don’t get dibs for being there first. The fact that the U.K. has chosen to take a very generous approach is irrelevant.

Booboostwo · 15/10/2019 14:07

EU citizens in the UK are being treated like absolute shit can I ask how so? Haven't we offered a free application for settled status?

First you need an android phone and you download an app which you can only use if you are physically in the UK. Then you scan your passport and hope for the best.

After that you take on the website which is frequently down or crashes just as you've gotten to the end of the long process. You supply everything required...only to hear a few months down the line that some other evidence is now required... and repeat 2-3 times, until you get Pre-Settled Status only which is not worth the email it is written on.

And that's not to mention what the hostile environment is doing to students, people coming to work, non-Brits married to Brits, etc.

All of this is the 'pleasant' experience. Try being a non-EU immigrant and see how welcome you are made to feel.

SkipJoan · 15/10/2019 14:08

I dont think this is a reason to encourage people to "be furious with Brexit voters" or the French. It is a niggling fustrating process that can be dealt with. If everyone is furious with each other over every mess up over the next few months we will be in permanent hysteria.

phoenixrosehere · 15/10/2019 14:09

YABU

France is only one country in the EU and is allowed to dictate its own immigration laws as do the other countries in the EU and the UK. The U.K. made this ridiculous decision to leave the EU and is in charge of its own immigration laws and always has been despite what others thought before Brexit.

As someone who has gone through the immigration process here in the U.K., as a spouse of a British citizen, France doesn’t sound that much different than what I went through being from a non-EU country except for the U.K. it is way more than £200! To be able to use the NHS was £500 alone when I first started the process and that was just the first time around, still had to go through the visa process two
additional times before indefinite leave and for citizenship it would be a fourth go and another £1000+.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 15/10/2019 14:10

And so far about 50% of those who have applied for settled status have been refused
can I see proof of this statistic (im not being deliberately obtuse, Im actually interested)

Damntheman · 15/10/2019 14:12

The fact that the U.K. has chosen to take a very generous approach is irrelevant So generous! lol!

Nearlyalmost50 · 15/10/2019 14:14

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/09/two-15-million-applicants-eu-settlement-scheme-rejected-unsuitable/

It might be annoying and unfair to those without Android phones but it's not true 50% of people are getting rejected for settled status, it says in this very recent article that about 60 odd% have got it and 38% have pre-settled status (which is due to length of time in the country).

Don't put people off applying!!!!

ThatMuppetShow · 15/10/2019 14:14

First you need an android phone and you download an app which you can only use if you are physically in the UK. Then you scan your passport and hope for the best.

no you don't, that was the test phase, anyone can access the application nowadays. You will need to send your document instead of scanning it, that's all.

I have just been on there, took less than a minute in a queue to go on there.

ImNotYourGranny · 15/10/2019 14:18

And so far about 50% of those who have applied for settled status have been refused
can I see proof of this statistic (im not being deliberately obtuse, Im actually interested)

www.ft.com/content/4152e012-ea80-11e9-85f4-d00e5018f061