AIBU to be really pissed off with EU countries?

[FloatingObject]

This isn;t a general Brexit debate, this is about the rights of foreign nationals NOT being reciprocated as it was claimed they would be.

You know it's serious when the Guardian finally bites the bullet and publishes what it doesn't want to publish. For reference: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/14/britons-in-europe-face-citizens-rights-lottery-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit

I cannot believe that for settled status (which is free to apply for via an app) all you have to do is show proof of address and that you're not a criminal.

Meanwhile, here in France (for example), they're not taking applications, it'll cost over 200 quid, all by old-school paper, involving proof of income, etc etc.

I love this country (France), I'm not a huge earner but higher than average, I pay high taxes, I volunteer. I feel as if the countries of the EU (with the exception of Ireland, see article) are completely using us as pawns. I get that Brexit is a complete fucking mess that nobody wants. But that's not our fault. We're people who have made commitments to our host countries. We should be treated the same way EU nationals in the UK are being treated. I have a French friend in the UK who doesn't even give a crap about Brexit, she applied for her settled status and has moved on, her big thing is the climate change stuff. This isn't even on her radar. If the reverse was happening there'd be complete fucking outrage in the UK, and cries of "this is just despicable, these are peoples LIVES!!!!"

Sorry for the rant, but I just think although obviously given my situation (and also my politics) I am anti Brexit, I think this is a really poor show from EU countries, and I think the EU could have come up with a collective solution for British nationals already living in the EU, that would apply across the board. It's not their problem, but neither is it ours. /rant over

Why didn't you apply for a carte de séjour over the last 3 years? Most of my UK friends already had done the application before the end of March and said it was pretty straightforward. They've only stopped taking applications in the last couple of months.

Molteni ever heard of enlightened self interest?

On average British citizens are useful citizens to acquire for some EU countries (not, of course, so much in the counties British citizens traditionally retire to, but the countries British citizens move to in order to work). Mobile British citizens (excluding the subgroup who moved specifically for a cheap retirement) tend to be well educated, motivated and productive - and not to be traumatised survivors of horrific events and regimes in need of extensive, expensive, long term professional support in multiple areas of life, fleeing cultures native born citizens are wary of)...

Germany isn't doing badly overall with the 1,2 million asylum seekers they've accepted, and 35% who entered in 2025 have permanent employment in "qualified" jobs now - but of course it's both self interested and not unreasonable to make citizenship easy for British graduates already working here, because they're useful and cost the county nothing to integrate.

@Velveteenfruitbowl
The fact that the U.K. has chosen to take a very generous approach is irrelevant.

Yeah, I hear that a lot from people who haven't seen our "very generous approach" in action.

@SkipJoan
I dont think this is a reason to encourage people to "be furious with Brexit voters" or the French. It is a niggling fustrating process that can be dealt with. If everyone is furious with each other over every mess up over the next few months we will be in permanent hysteria.

That's a lovely sentiment and it'd be great if we could all deal with this rationally and not blame anyone. Unfortunately, EU nationals are experiencing a great deal of hostility and anger from Brexit voters, too. For example: on hearing my friend's french accent in a shop, a stranger felt he needed to explain (by shouting in an enclosed space) that the reason we're still stuck in the EU is because of the "effing frogs". And as the EU didn't give us everything we wanted in a deal, all french people have now surrendered their right to live here and should "all just fuck off and sponge off their own country".

She's now paranoid about talking in front of strangers in case her accent provokes another confrontation. It's not just her and it's getting worse: www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/20/racism-on-the-rise-since-brexit-vote-nationwide-study-reveals

2015 not 2025 obviously

but it's not true 50% of people are getting rejected for settled status thank you....I thought it was leavers that were meant to make up statistics.

ImNotYourGranny apologies I cannot access the link as the FT requires sign up

@imnotyourgranny

I didn’t realise 50% had been refused, have you got a link?

My understanding was that if we agreed that EU citizens could stay here on the same terms then EU countries were to do the same thing for British residents in their countries. From what the OP is saying then France is not doing that. What about other countries?

but it's not true 50% of people are getting rejected for settled status thank you....I thought it was leavers that were meant to make up statistics.

Yep you got me. My figures were out slightly. The Financial Times says that it's only 42%. So that's great then only around a million people being told that they can't have settled status. So not an issue.

Except whether it's 50% or 42% or 25% or 10% it's still an absolute fucking disgrace and the government and everyone who voted for this should be ashamed of themselves. There is no excuse for treating people like this. None!

@finitemonkeys

I’ve got an anecdote too - I’m mixed race and I was standing at a bus stop with my colleague who happens to wear a head scarf when four men pulled up in a Polish registered car shouting and gesturing, one of them spat at us.

I’m not pro Brexit, but this works both ways.

FloatingObject out of interest, why didn't you sort this out 3 years ago?

I applied for my German citizenship as soon as the referendum was announced, and had it before Christmas 2016... Leaving it until 7 months after the original leave date seems like the extreme adrenaline junky souped up version of flying by the seat of your pants...

Unfortunately it’s not quite as straightforward as you’ve made it sound. Fiancé is from Portugal; he moved here in 2009 to study his MA, he graduated and has lived and worked here ever since. He’s never been unemployed or homeless or left the country (holidays and trips home at Christmas time excluded, of course) or even had a parking ticket but for some reason the settlement system couldn’t find him and he was initially rejected.

We had to find, download/ physically scan, and then upload 10 years worth of evidence into a system which is barely fit for purpose. We’re lucky we’re young and tech-savvy and we managed to bypass the “10 documents only” rule by putting 10 years worth of bank statements into one PDF meaning we could also attach 9 other rental agreements and tax documents etc. so the evidence was pretty much irrefutable second time around. But it certainly wasn’t easy, it was hours and hours of admin. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I didn’t realise 50% had been refused, have you got a link?

According to the FT article I linked it's 42% which apparently means it's fine.

@imnotyourgranny

I’ve seen your update (should have read the whole thread...).

Will read the article later as I can borrow FT logins at work.

Hate to say it, but Leave means Leave (apparently). France, or any other EU country doesn’t have to change their immigration rules because UK thought they could have their cake and eat it. Can’t wait until Spain starts charging the Brexit voters on the Costa Del Retirement for all their medical treatment, and their property values tank because they can’t give them away.

I’m afraid I am looking forward to this hurting those who voted for it the worst. I’m aware it’ll hit all of us, but they won’t be bleating Project Fear when they can’t afford their fucking all-Inclusive chips and fry up holidays.

Sounds like it's France who are imposing this, not the EU.

Can’t wait until Spain starts charging the Brexit voters on the Costa Del Retirement for all their medical treatment, and their property values tank because they can’t give them away.
I know it's tempting to think like this but can we remember that, despite them being interviewed a lot, Costa Brexiteers are a minority. Most Brits in the EU work and have young families - and thousands of us didn't even get a vote!

victoriasleigh my son's Finnish partner had the same problem. Despite working in the public sector and having studied at a Russell Group University she was told there was no evidence of her being in the country before she made her application. Got there in the end but it was a nightmare.

@bunnyfuller

“I’m looking forward to this hurting those that voted it for it the most” - who do you mean by those that voted for it?

“All inclusive chips and fry up holidays” - that gives me an indication of who you think voted for it.

@ImNotYourGranny
Because those who weren't granted settled status didn't meet the minimum time requirement, so have been granted pre-settled status? It's kind of the flip side of @Anothernotherone's flippant 'why didn't you sort this out before, I got citizenship three years ago'. Although for some reason when it's British nationals in the EU it's 'that's your choice, you moved to another country, why didn't you sort this before, etc etc etc', and when it's EU nationals in the UK, it's 'but they have to use an APP! It is so hard and unfair for them! They don't meet the time requirement and this is TERRIBLE!'

I just don't really understand why there's a lot of sympathy in one direction and not the other.

By the way, I will actually be applying for citizenship, but (all together now) I didn't meet the time requirement before now.

@Mackerz

I’ve got an anecdote too - I’m mixed race and I was standing at a bus stop with my colleague who happens to wear a head scarf when four men pulled up in a Polish registered car shouting and gesturing, one of them spat at us.
I’m not pro Brexit, but this works both ways.

Oh, good grief, that's despicable. It feels entirely inadequate but all the online , and , in lieu of real-life support

I'm so sorry you had to experience an attack like this - were you able to report it?

But yes, it absolutely goes both ways and it's never, ever acceptable. We're all scared or nervous and the current populist approach to politics is creating opposing tribes and these types of confrontations are getting more severe and more frequent. I was always proud of the UK's diversity but this level of aggression and intolerance is a depressing symptom of the huge schism caused by reacting to a close-run referendum without, you know, planning some of this stuff first.

smemorata yes I've always lived in the same place

I cannot believe that for settled status (which is free to apply for via an app) all you have to do is show proof of address and that you're not a criminal.

I’m sorry, it that is not true.

I moved to the UK 25 years ago and I’m married to a British man, have a daughter.

When she was born, we moved to my country and after 4 years we came back for her to start school here.

Since it hasn’t been 5 years since we came back, I’ve just been given Pre Settled status.

So it’s not as straight forward as you may have heard.

First of all, it's not the EU, each individual country will deal with this matter in their own way. I repeat, not the EU.

Secondly, I feel a lot of sympathy for people like you who live abroad, just that your post is stating some deep misunderstanding of the situation for EU citizens in the UK and quite frankly, I don't feel sympathy for you personally especially if you dismiss the troubling issues with EU citizens here.

Also, as others have stated, the Settled Status is a complete mess. For so many applicants, it is not straight forward. And guess who this is affecting the most? You've got it, for the poorest (with less access and knowledge of tech), for young children (insufficient proof of stay) and the elderly. So our most vulnerable EU citizens in the UK. Great.

yes I've always lived in the same place
That explains a lot! I couldn't find a job in the area I grew up in. You obviously don't think people should be allowed to move and try to look for work elsewhere.

UK nationals in the EU should be treated the same as for instance, US nationals are treated in the EU. It is easier for Eu countries if UK nationals go through the same process as citizens of countries like Japan.

Britain left the EU. It can't keep the good bits. Westminster doesn't care about Brits living in the EU or you would have had the right to vote in the referendum. Westminster shafted UK exists in the EU.

France and other EU countries are probably shitting themselves that there will be calls for a Frexit etc They need to be "tough on immigration" and "in control of their borders" (a major selling point of the Leave campaign) or they will be next. EU countries shouldn't have to swallow the costs of UK citizens completing the necessary paperwork so that they can continue their lives. If you are going to be angry, be angry that Westminster isn't refunding you these costs.