AIBU to be really pissed off with EU countries?

[FloatingObject]

This isn;t a general Brexit debate, this is about the rights of foreign nationals NOT being reciprocated as it was claimed they would be.

You know it's serious when the Guardian finally bites the bullet and publishes what it doesn't want to publish. For reference: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/14/britons-in-europe-face-citizens-rights-lottery-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit

I cannot believe that for settled status (which is free to apply for via an app) all you have to do is show proof of address and that you're not a criminal.

Meanwhile, here in France (for example), they're not taking applications, it'll cost over 200 quid, all by old-school paper, involving proof of income, etc etc.

I love this country (France), I'm not a huge earner but higher than average, I pay high taxes, I volunteer. I feel as if the countries of the EU (with the exception of Ireland, see article) are completely using us as pawns. I get that Brexit is a complete fucking mess that nobody wants. But that's not our fault. We're people who have made commitments to our host countries. We should be treated the same way EU nationals in the UK are being treated. I have a French friend in the UK who doesn't even give a crap about Brexit, she applied for her settled status and has moved on, her big thing is the climate change stuff. This isn't even on her radar. If the reverse was happening there'd be complete fucking outrage in the UK, and cries of "this is just despicable, these are peoples LIVES!!!!"

Sorry for the rant, but I just think although obviously given my situation (and also my politics) I am anti Brexit, I think this is a really poor show from EU countries, and I think the EU could have come up with a collective solution for British nationals already living in the EU, that would apply across the board. It's not their problem, but neither is it ours. /rant over

I don't think that at all but why should I consider the feelings of those who leave?

Sorry OP YABU. And I live in France too.

It's not their problem, but neither is it ours.

It’s is “our” problem because we are British. It’s the British people that voted for Brexit, and it’s the British government that’s making an absolute mess of the negotiations, planning and decision-making process. We - the British - caused this. Why should the EU states make a special case and help us out? I wouldn’t tbh.

FloatingObject the sympathy goes in one direction because it's the UK's fault (though not the fault of individual British citizens who didn't vote for it). It's weird to be angry with countries that have had this dumped on them.

I'm completely ashamed of my country of birth atm. My adopted country has no obligation to mop up the bloody stupid self indulgent, self destructive mess and chaos my birth country is inflicting on its neighbours.

@newearringsplease Because we didn't abandon our country we took up an opportunity to work abroad that was offered by our country. If I moved from England to Scotland I wouldn't expect English people to tell me I was no longer English. This is basically what you are saying. Eithercwe are British and our government is responsible for us or we are not British and the referendum result doesn't affect us. You can't have it oth ways. And I do think we should be compensated. We are having our rights taken away and our lives turned upside down because our government decided to have a referendum that we weren't allowed to vote in. That's anti-democratic.

@finitemonkeys

Some of my friends have been concerned about the levels of racism tolerated in Eastern Europe for a while, especially as some of it seems to have made its way here. Did you see what happened to some of our players in Bulgaria last night?

We reported it to the police and my friend logged it with a specific islamophobia charity. We didn’t hear anything more.

My point is, it isn’t just British people who are racist. It would actually be rare to see the sort of behaviour from British people today, especially in a city.

I didn't even have to prove i am not a criminal...
Filled up basic details. It told me it didn't have enough info from my NIN so I would be awarded pre-settled. Clicked that I want to upload evidence to get settled. Uploaded 5 council tax bills. Done.

This is apparently why there is such a high number of people being granted pre-settled, not settled (that's that 42%). System is a mess so unless they actually click that "No, I want to upload more evidence" or whatever button, they are stuck with pre settled for a while.

Whoever is applying, please note that the selfie will be visible to anyone checking your status!😳 I need to change mine because i did really crappy one as a little fuck you to the system...

Yabu this is not France's or any of the other EU countries fault. You have known about this since 2016. I'm personally sick of British expats in France driving on their UK licences so they don't get caught, not paying into the system, not learning the language and then complaining when they realise 3 years later that they don't have the right paperwork.

@Frenchfancy
Well that's not my case, I've lived a total of 10 years in France but my problem is it was going back and forth between different countries so not a complete 10-year block. I know the kind of people you mean and I do agree. Actually I find the retired people most irritating although it's quite sad for them really as they'll be hardest hit by this I reckon.

I have empathy for your situation.

It is not as easy for EU nationals in the U.K as you think it is though.

Racist hate crime is huge here right now. So many people are being told to f##k off back to their own country.

I was born in the U.K but spent my early years in a different country in Europe.

I moved back to the U.K this year, and I have made a concentrated effort to change my accent to an English one, as I just can't be dealing with the abuse when I open my mouth anymore.

Can I just to everyone reading this, can you please think before you say a racist remark, or can you please step in when you see racist remarks happening.

I know of one situation with a married family in the U.K, where the wife left her husband in the U.K to go to her home country and took the children with her, PURELY because her life was made unbearable by racism in the U.K. She could not take the racist abuse anymore . That family is split up and devastated

My mother is one of those EU citizens in the UK, and the system isn't as straightforward as you're suggesting. She came here in 1965, so before the EU was founded, and went through a strict immigration process. She has the paperwork from back then stating that she has the right to stay in the UK. Now, apparently, this counts for nothing, and she has to apply all over again for her right to stay in the UK, aged 75. Because she is not very mobile, she hasn't travelled for years, and therefore her passport has expired. She will therefore need to travel to the French consulate (twice) to renew her passport. She lives three hours away on public transport and - as I said - is not very mobile. So god knows how that is going to happen. After that she'll have to use an app on a smartphone that she doesn't own (and certainly wouldn't be able to use) to apply again for a right to live here that she gained 50 years ago. If she fails to do this, tories like Brandon Lewis are on record as saying that she will be deported from the country.

@Frenchfancy

Sounds like something a Brexiter might say!

“I’m sick of EU expats in the UK driving on their foreign licenses so they don’t get caught, not paying into the system, not learning the language and then complaining when they realise 3 years later when they realise they don’t have the right paperwork”.

@GCAcademic have you reached out to some support groups which could help her? And some consulates do days in different cities so see if the French one might so she doesn't have to travel far, hopefully.

“I’m sick of EU expats in the UK driving on their foreign licenses so they don’t get caught, not paying into the system, not learning the language and then complaining when they realise 3 years later when they realise they don’t have the right paperwork”.

Lol sounds like lots of Brit expats in France... just add that they work cash in hand so they don’t pay tax, fake self-employed status so they can register for subsidised healthcare and if that doesn’t work they travel back to the UK and use the NHS from a relative or friends address there!

Blame the Tories and especially David Cameron.

It’s utterly, utterly crap for you but it really isn’t the EU countries’ fault.

The bottom line is you are living and working in another EU country under rights extended extended to citizens of the EU. After Brexit, British people will no longer be citizens of the EU and you will therefore no longer have those rights. France is under no obligation to continue to provide you with those rights for free.

The will of the people, I’m afraid. Apparently they fully understood what they were voting for.

@GCAcademic

So is this like another Windrush? I don’t understand, if she’s been given the right to remain, how can that be taken away?

1. It's not that simple to apply through the app. Lots of people have to send in (or scan) additional information. Every time you get a new passport younhave to send it to the Home Office. If you kove house, get a new phone number etc you have to tell them.
2. You can only use an android phone with some kind of reader dunction.
3. You cannot just go to your local coun il office if you don't want to or can't use a smart phone. There are only a few centres in the UK you can go to.
4. It's only just become free.
5. Applying for citizenship is very expensive.

EU countries are allowed to set their own policies around dealing with this issue, just as the UK has done. Sovereignty, you know. That thing the Brexiteers said we didn't have. Nothing to do with the EU.

I really can't get up any anger at other EU countries for doing this. The UK is due to become a third country. What else were they going to do?

Safety - no, I haven't - are there any support groups you could recommend? To be honest, she's in complete denial about the whole thing and currently refusing to apply for a status she says she already has. She doesn't trust the government at all to grant her settled status, whereas at present she thinks she does have documentation that allows her to stay indefinitely (it's true she has the documentation, but it's now been declared obsolete). It's an absolute nightmare envisaging the prospect of having an elderly parent who is an illegal immigrant, unable to access the health service, etc. I also have another elderly relative who is in the same position and refusing to apply for settled status. I imagine there are a lot of them, including some who don't even realise that they need to apply.

Mackerz So is this like another Windrush? I don’t understand, if she’s been given the right to remain, how can that be taken away?

That's exactly the question that I would like the government to answer. I think there should be some sort of legal action against this, because they have basically retracted actual immigration documents. Which is a step further even than Windrush, I think.

@darlingnikita

But your comment makes a mockery of the reasons that were given for allowing EU citizens to remain in the UK.

If the treatment the OP is receiving is widespread, then it won’t end well for EU citizens in the UK.

@GCAcademic I would check wit The 3 million group. From what I heard they can help with these things. At least give you some info.

@GCAcademic

Yes, I think the people who were hit by Windrush had lost their documents or moved here when immigration from the Commonwealth wasn’t really controlled, so hadn’t been given any documents. Pre 1983 ish I think (should know as my grandfather was from the Caribbean but he came here with the army).

I don’t know as I’m not a solicitor but if they have retracted actual immigration documents, would it be worth going to a newspaper and seeing if they could put some pressure on the government?

No one to blame but the Tories and those who voted for Brexit. Why should an EU country treat a non-EU country any differently? You do realise how the UK treats non-EU nationals who want to live in the UK, do you knot? There are strict income requirements and a whole lot more, hoops to jump through and expensive visas.

France and other EU countries are probably shitting themselves that there will be calls for a Frexit etc

I can assure you that is not the case. One thing Brexit has done is silence a lot of "let's leave the EU" sentiment in other countries. I can easily see Farage being awarded a medal for having done more for the cause of European unity than Churchill ...