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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To let you know that Flora

206 replies

GladAllOver · 13/10/2019 18:44

isn't the only product made by Upfield.
You might want to be aware of some others:

Upfield's notable brands include Flora, Stork, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter, Rama, Country Crock, Becel, and Blue Band.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upfield_(company)

OP posts:
WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 14/10/2019 09:37

@Whatthingsexactly
Do you really think it is not worth debating?” I and others have tried, very hard, over months and years, to engage in debate on mn. It is made impossible by bullying from GC posters

Very much so this, and I have tried too. I won't engage in there anymore. It's not worth it. Because of the hardcore few who as you say make it impossible for any discussion.

FeckOffGraham · 14/10/2019 09:37

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it.

Here's another one of these for you Flora 🤢 🖕. I do hope you've received them all.

Ringdonna · 14/10/2019 09:39

These Flora posts are spreading......

FeckOffGraham · 14/10/2019 09:41

Because of the hardcore few who as you say make it impossible for any discussion.

Never impossible. Roll up your sleeves and fight for your beliefs, if you are passionate enough. I believe the same as you, but I also think a decent debate needs to be had. If there is bullying on a thread, call it out and report.

I will not, however, be told I am using a hate site, when I just want advice on nappies, or on what dress to wear to a wedding. And never by fucking Flora of all people 🤢🖕.

FeckOffGraham · 14/10/2019 09:42

And you're right, it IS a hardcore FEW. Most people on here are reasonable and would never refuse to use the correct pronouns etc.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 14/10/2019 09:46

Never impossible. Roll up your sleeves and fight for your beliefs, if you are passionate enough

I have. Repeatedly. It's nothing to do with not being passionate enough and everything to do with I'm fucking done with the bullying and gaslighting on there from them.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 14/10/2019 09:49

If there is bullying on a thread, call it out and report
I do or should I say did do when on there
It's not as easy as "report.
It's insiduous, creeping, bullying pile on.... you won't see it though if you're not a minority voice in there.

Whatthingsexactly · 14/10/2019 09:58

Ginger and smem, you may need some assistance with using the search function. Just because you have not seen it or can’t find it right now does not mean it doesn’t exist. And no, I mean the actual GRA.

And Graham, I do fight, I do call out, and report, and persist. So do others. It’s been escalating for years now and that whole time, I’ve been pushing back against generalised anti trans posting.

I’ve been subject to wholesale character assassination so many times, accused of threatening, abusive woman hating, collusion with violent sex offenders. And that all comes from holding posters to account for basic respectful and civil posting in the context of debate.

It has happened countless times to me and to many others, and I’m really really fed up with the denial that this happens, and the imputation that we are snowflakes who need to toughen up and get stuck in.

There’s a difference between robust discourse and concerted, persistent, deliberate attacks to drive out unwelcome posters.

Any community manager can identify it. MNHQ sees it, they know it’s happening, it’s reported to them, and they do very little to discourage it let alone stop it.

Their statement that they host respectful civil debate is not reflected by the reality of posting in FWR.

FeckOffGraham · 14/10/2019 10:00

If by bullying, you mean, they all disagree with you, (and me), that isn't bullying.

They are allowed their opinions, even though I firmly disagree with them.

If they are so unreasonable that you can't stand to engage with them, that is totally understandable. And I have seen some of their behaviour. Some of it is indeed transphobic too. I've seen transwomen called names and the refusal to call them "she" etc. But that is not the norm.

There are other options beside branding the ENTIRE SITE a hate site. Especially when, as you say yourself, it is the (vocal) few bad apples on here.

If everyone judged MN by one section of the site, it could be called all sorts of things. AIBU is pretty brutal! And some of the weight loss threads- yikes! Pro-rexia anyone??

But that is not the whole site. For Flora to make a statement like this is absolutely unacceptable. It would be less so if they had boycotted other forums where transphobia exists. That's why I will absolutely boycott until they make a similar stand against fb, the guardian, the bbc and every other site where people make transphobic comments. Off you go then Flora 🖕. Look forward to reading your brave statement against fb and Twitter.

FeckOffGraham · 14/10/2019 10:02

I’ve been subject to wholesale character assassination so many times, accused of threatening, abusive woman hating, collusion with violent sex offenders. And that all comes from holding posters to account for basic respectful and civil posting in the context of debate.

X post- that is bullying. Link to threads and I will report. Genuine request! I want to report that Flowers.

Timeywimey10 · 14/10/2019 10:02

The campaign group Stop Funding Hate were part of the campaign, they're making a real difference in getting businesses to make more ethical spending decisions

It's astonishing that wanting womens sport for women is now considered "hate". I can think of far far worse.

FairfaxAikman · 14/10/2019 10:04
  • Here we go again with the ‘I’m pro- trans. You bigots’ virtue signalling.

Good for you.

I’m pro women’s rights. You misogynist.*

Mumsnet really needs a like button.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 14/10/2019 10:04

If by bullying, you mean, they all disagree with you, (and me), that isn't bullying

No, I don't mean that as you say, that wouldn't be bullying.
Nothing wrong with being disagreed with.
Maybe you cross posted with @Whatthingsexactly Mon 14-Oct-19 09:58:38 post, as it describes it more accurately what goes on

FeckOffGraham · 14/10/2019 10:09

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis

Yes, see my post at 10.02.

smemorata · 14/10/2019 10:14

It's astonishing that wanting womens sport for women is now considered "hate".

Exactly. People seem to have zero ability to actually think through certain arguments at the moment. I was blocked on twitter for (politely) questioning in a debate on trans rights as to whether it is fair to girls to apply the TWAW rule to sport. (My daughter loves athletics and it is an issue close to my heart). No debate allowed. Just blocked for transphobia.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 14/10/2019 10:16

X post- that is bullying. Link to threads and I will report. Genuine request! I want to report that

That's the tone of the entire board though, it's rife.
Regular posters do it constantly, it's not as easy as "just link to the threads"

Xenia · 14/10/2019 10:19

I don't eat that kind of processed "food" but xx women can certainly vote with their feet. MN is not transphobic in my view. People ust want to protect the rights of xx chromosome women eg ensure statistics of women on boards or violence against women are not skewed.

I support our current gender recognition act which is a very good compromise and fair. I hope it is here to stay. A 2 year period and full transition seems to the right, kind and appropriate balance for letting someone change gender by law.

FeckOffGraham · 14/10/2019 10:20

@Wotcha

Maybe link to a few threads? I'm genuinely trying to help here. And I hate transphobia. I hate bigotry of any kind, so I will gladly report and explain to MNHQ in my report that it isn't just this thread, it's a few things. They have looked at things like that for me before.

Feel free to PM me if you're worried about repercussions on here.

HebeMumsnet · 14/10/2019 12:31

Morning, everyone.

We just wanted to pop in with a reminder of our talk guidelines on transgender issues. We understand that over in FWR posters are fairly au fait with them now but just in case people over here aren't we thought now might be a good time to post them. Here you go.

We could feel the temperature beginning to rise slightly here so just a reminder that we welcome comments on both sides of the debate but we ask everyone to keep posts civil.

Thanks!

FeckOffGraham · 14/10/2019 12:54

Those rules look completely fair Hebe.

Ereshkigal · 14/10/2019 13:16

Mumsnet can often have a vicious, unpleasant side and it is good to see a business say "no, we won't advertise here till they get rid of the negativity"

How do you think they should "get rid of the negativity"? Mumsnet reflects most people's general views on this issue overall, except that posters here are often better informed about the problems and concerns with the trans agenda. Which is arguably why TRAs want to shut the discussion down.

Ereshkigal · 14/10/2019 13:22

Apart from the many many FWR posters who call for repeal of the GRA

So? Did you think it was also wrong to campaign for the repeal of the legal abortion ban in Ireland? We are allowed to criticise badly thought out or harmful laws, you realise?

BelleSausage · 14/10/2019 13:25

Thanks @FairfaxAikman

I’m thinking of getters my badges made. 😂

BelleSausage · 14/10/2019 13:26

Damn!

I mean I’m thinking of getting badges made.

Fucking I-phone.

StarlingsInSummer · 14/10/2019 13:28

Thanks OP. Thankfully I'm pro trans rights so I'll add them all to the shopping list!

Thanks OP. Thankfully I'm pro women's rights so I'll add them all to the boycott list!