To let you know that Flora

[GladAllOver]

isn't the only product made by Upfield.
You might want to be aware of some others:

Upfield's notable brands include Flora, Stork, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter, Rama, Country Crock, Becel, and Blue Band.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upfield_(company)

I'm devastated that a company whose products are full of palm oil and taste of greasy, oily shit have decided to no longer advertise on MN

I'm so bored of Flora posts

You poor love. Women's right to free speech is just so tedious, isn't it?

Thanks op.

I hate transphobia and yes, it exists on MN. I find it vile, ignorant and completely lacking in empathy. A few posters do say genuinely offensive things about transpeople on MN and it's not right at all.

What has massively pissed me off about fucking fuck off fucking Flora bastards, is that they have decided that the whole of MN should be lumped in with the transphobic ones. Fuck right off. We are not a hive mind. I don't think you could find a single MNetter who agreed with me on every issue.

There are, fairly frequently, weird trolls on here, fishing for inappropriate stories.
Because those few weirdos are on here, does that automatically make this forum a... I dunno filthy sex site? No it really fucking doesn't. That makes as much sense as a handful of transphobic posters meaning this is a hate site.

So yeah, fuck you Flora and fuck the fuck off.

I went back to FB recently and, having come from this alleged hotbed of transphobia, I thought I'd seen the worst of it. Nope! Some of the things people (including women) say to transpeople on FB is really terrible and nobody picks them up on it. Where are the companies threatening to boycott FB? These really obviously transphobic comments do not get deleted or moderated and rarely get challenged with any real enthusiasm.

Ffs .

Why are you here then @WotchaTalkinBoutWillis? Honestly. If you think MN is so awful you should probably find another website

I don't think MN is "so awful." As I've said I've been here years and still like it.

*Has anyone seen the quasi experiment done between this crap and actual butter?

They put a lump of this stuff in one corner, and a lump of real butter in another, then released a load of ants to see which they went too. All the ants went to the real butter.

Its not real food*

If you put a pile of sugar in one corner and a pile of flour in another corner, the ants would go to the sugar.
Does that mean flour isn't real food?

Feckoff surely they’re not paying for advertising on here because of the way the site is run and reacts to transphobia and transphobic language. It’s not about MN being a hive mind.

Are we talking trans fats?

Feckoff surely they’re not paying for advertising on here because of the way the site is run and reacts to transphobia and transphobic language. It’s not about MN being a hive mind.

It is the fact that they have collaborated with someone who calls MN a "hate site" to victimised a public forum where there are people from many walks of life and with very varying opinions on many issues.

The fact that I am pro trans rights makes me even angrier about this. And it should make anyone who agrees with me on this angry too.

How dare they target MN, when there are many people on here who defend trans right and people on here who are trans themselves.

This site is not an anti trans site. Most threads are about in-laws, weddings and adultery, dieting, clothes, reusable nappies.

There are a few bad apples on here, but there are rotten, stinking, worm ridden apples elsewhere online and apparently that's fine is it?

Massively fuck you Flora. You're disgusting anyway 🤢🖕.

And, it's one thing for an individual, or small group of individuals, who have been directly affected by some of the transphobic comments on here to call it a hate site. I get why they won't be comforted by the fact that not all of us are like that and that most of us are just here for the style and beauty section or whatever.

For an enormous company like Upcunts to buy into the idea that we are a "hate site" is completely different and makes a very big statement. "Oh good", I hear you cry? They're taking a stand against transphobia at last?

No, why are they targeting a site which actually moderates transphobic comments and has actual rules against people making those comments. Wasn't Posy Perkins kicked out? What I've seen, going unchallenged on FB would never fly on MN. Why is Flora not boycotting facebook or the news organisations where I've seen these comments and they have stayed up with minimal challenge and no moderation, (on bbc news articles and the guardian articles - I'm not talking some far right, bigoted rag here)? Until they do that, I am boycotting them.

JasonPollack and the other pro TRAs, don't you care that you have bee labelled transphobes then?

I went on to the feminism board a while ago under a different name and got slaughtered on a trans thread. I was pro trans. It’s a horrible place and have now hidden it. I’m with Flora on this.

The problem is that different people have different ideas as to what being transphobic means. Nobody wants trans people to disappear or not have rights. Many women don't believe that suddenly trans women ARE biologically women. This would have been completely uncontroversial not long ago now it seems it makes you a bigot!

I’m with Flora on this

How can anyone who enjoys MN, or who wants women to have free speech, be with Flora on this?

Even if you believe that some transphobic posts are allowed on MN, threads about trans issues are way less than 1%of MN's content. Compare with Twitter or FB, where vile content about violent sexual abuse of women, pictures of rape, pro-paedophilia posts occur by the thousand, yet Flora isn't boycotting those sites. Why not? Why is it only women expressing their opinions that is labelled as hate? Why are women the targets of this virtue-signalling?

I can understand some MNetters feeling uncomfortable with threads on FWR (though I disagree). I cannot understand any woman supporting Flora to try to limit her own free speech. Because that's what this is about - creating pressure via advertisers to stop women expressing their views. Any woman who colludes with that is a turkey voting for Christmas. OK, it's trans issues now, but next it could be violence against women or criticism of men. Think that sounds extreme? Guess again - Twitter is already censoring women for tweets that state that most violence against women is committed by men. The most basic facts about women's lives are now unsayable on the major SM forums yet, instead of protesting, posters on here are lining up to applaud Flora for doing the same on MN. It's pathetic - women suffered and died to give you the rights that you are now trying to give away to a fucking margarine company..

I don't know how any woman can be so naive and so careless about her rights, and those of her daughters, to support an advertiser trying to control her.

I see a lot of Womanphobic comments from people who think a Y chromosome entitles them to change the definition of woman to include themselves.

“Nobody wants trans people to..... not have rights”

Apart from the many many FWR posters who call for repeal of the GRA, who refuse to use preferred pronouns and consider it an affront to be asked to do so, who think it should be made harder for trans people to have documents changed, or who think trans people should not have children.

All this and more can be found on a repeating loop on FWR.

How can anyone who enjoys MN, or who wants women to have free speech, be with Flora on this?

Because this move from Flora and the attendant publicity and scrutiny might give MNHQ more reasons to stem the tide of transphobic sentiment on their site.

There is so much that’s wonderful on mn.

Apart from the many many FWR posters who call for repeal of the GRA, who refuse to use preferred pronouns and consider it an affront to be asked to do so, who think it should be made harder for trans people to have documents changed, or who think trans people should not have children.
Trans women already have rights. Most of the "rights" you refer to are not human rights and they directly conflict with many hard-won rights for women. Why are women not allowed to point this out without being called transphobic? Re-defining what "woman" means is not about being polite or kind it is a MONUMENTAL change and affects everyone in society but most directly it impacts on women. Do you really think it is not worth debating?

Because this move from Flora and the attendant publicity and scrutiny might give MNHQ more reasons to stem the tide of transphobic sentiment on their site

So you are OK with a site for women being punished by advertisers in a way that Twitter and Facebook are not? And you are OK with women being prevented from expressing their opinions?

“Do you really think it is not worth debating?”

I and others have tried, very hard, over months and years, to engage in debate on mn. It is made impossible by bullying from GC posters.

I’m not trying to convince you and I’m not interested in finding proof for you. I have that conversation with MNHQ regularly.

In the meantime, a PP said no one wants to take away rights from trans people. My post was to point out that that is absolutely not true, and that FWR has a core of posters and posts that do seek to remove existing rights from trans people.

There is a even a poster with the user name RepealtheGRA

*Apart from the many many FWR posters who call for repeal of the GRA, who refuse to use preferred pronouns and consider it an affront to be asked to do so, who think it should be made harder for trans people to have documents changed, or who think trans people should not have children.

All this and more can be found on a repeating loop on FWR.*

I have not heard a single poster call for repeal of the GRA, there are massive concerns about the proposed reforms to the GRA and self identification with so gatekeeping by a gender expert.

By having documents changed do you mean Freddy Mcconell the legal man who have birth (after having fertility treatment just after he signed a legal declaration that he intended to live as a man) who wants to be declared father on the birth certificate of the child he gave birth to?

I also don't recall anyone saying trans people should not be allowed to have children either.

The GRA reform would take rights OFF women. Why do you think trans prople should have MORE rights than women? I don't see why believing that trans people should have the same rights as non-trans people is being interpreted as having their rights removed.

I googled repeal the GRA and there was a 2 page thread on the subject over a year ago. Hardly a hot topic.

(And yes, I presume you and the poster you referred to were probably referring to the reform rather than the original act).

I keep seeing "transwomen aren't women" isn't that rather bigoted?

It's a physical, biological fact.

indeed.

On another note, why do people buy crap like Flora!

I have seen discussions about how the GRA is not working but rarely on mumsnet!