To not help DS although my heart is breaking?

[121feelinglost]

Bit of background DS 19 started university this year, he initially decided that he’d stay home and commute the 17 mile journey by train, he gets dropped off and collected from the train station (home) so not much walking. He has now decided that the hour there and the hour back is too much for him to cope with and he’s decided to move out. I’m not going to lie I was gutted when he said he was leaving because I really wanted him to stay home and also he couldn’t cook toast without burning the kitchen down. I told him that if he made the decision to leave I was unable to help him out financially, DH is the sole earner as DD has a health condition I stay at home. DS knew that we would be unable to help and I tried to guide him to university services available to see if they can help him with short term loan as he’s now paid a deposit on a room and having to pay rent in advance. He went to uni today and he said that he hasn’t been able to get anywhere with help from uni and he needs me to lend him £300, also buy his essentials for his move and make some frozen meals or he’ll go hungry next week.
When he mentioned he wanted to move I started to teach him how to make a quick chilli and few other quick meals so burning down the house isn’t the issue but he hasn’t got money for the ingredients.
I’m so angry with him that he’s so unorganised and has decided to move without any planning. He’s looking for work and has said he’ll pay me back but his lack of urgency to get things done, his lack of planning and his immaturity that parents will always be there to help him out is really annoying me.
I could help him out but it will be through a loan and will be difficult for a while.
WIBU to say “I’m sorry I can’t help?” But the thought of saying that to him is killing me and I’m fully aware he needs to grow up, but why am I finding it so hard.
(Name changed)

Why are you all attacking the OP because her 19 year old can't cook?

You do all realise they will only learn to cook if they WANT to. You can't force them.

OP buy him some food but beyond that tell him you don't have the money. He needs to get his act together and he won't do that unless you stop jumping in to save him.

Tough love. You can do it.

I think yabu. It us only surely to tide him over til his loan is topped up to the new rate.
I cannot imagine not helping out a dc who was only 19 and still in full tone education

I just wanted to thank everyone for their input/opinions/advice. We dropped DS off at his accommodation last night, took him out for a meal and he took left overs with him for his lunch. We got no thanks for all the effort we put into moving his stuff (up 3 floors worth of stairs might I add) but I got a thank you for the meal. As he left the car he kissed me goodbye, no hug for dad and my DD was waiting for him to hug her and he didn’t until I told him to at least say bye to her. I think it was at that point I realised what people here have been saying, my DS is a spoilt, entitled little brat. He text me when we got home (midnight) to ask if I would look into his contents cover. My reply was I’m sorry it’s late and I’m going to put your sister to bed, if I have time I’ll check tomorrow. I haven’t heard from him since. I told him at dinner last night that I won’t be emailing his university and that he needs to do that himself, he was shocked but said ok (reluctantly). After buying all his things I have written it down and given him the receipts and told him that he will pay me back (however slowly). I have also got his online banking details so I can see what he is spending on, if I am to lend him money for rent/food and I see he is being frivolous I will not lend him any money and also money lent will not exceed £500, any lending will stop when he gets his next instalment. I realised that it’s not really about him moving away anymore because he had chosen universities that were further away from home and he would have had to move either way but it’s his immaturity and selfishness that hurts, maybe I got my emotions mixed up. I now know he will survive he has no choice but to and I am unwilling to spend any more time on his demands because he CBA, I have a daughter who needs me and too much time has been spent on trying to help DS. So thank you Mumsnetters for helping me.

Why are you all attacking the OP because her 19 year old can't cook?
You do all realise they will only learn to cook if they WANT to. You can't force them

Personally I didn't mention the cooking, but I imagine any criticism's because it's a reflection of how he's been raised overall. Of course you can't force them, and a 19 year old's not now going to forego a night out with his mates to come home for Friday cooking lessons - but IME involving them in lots of life skills when younger can create an interest which might not otherwise be there

Whereas doing everything for them can just create a manchild who finds adulthood a struggle

Wow Op. What a cold hearted post.

I hope he changes his bank log in details so that you can't monitor his spending. That would break my heart to leave my kids like that - he is a product of his up bringing. If he's ungrateful it's because you've raised him to be ungrateful.

I hope that he has someone to turn to if he needs support or advice in the months to come.

TequilaPilates please explain to me how do you raise someone to be ungrateful? (Genuine question so I don’t continue to make the same mistakes). I have tried my hardest to get my son to learn how to cook but if he would rather game how can I force him? For those of you saying that I am forcing him to come home on Fridays for cooking lessons, let me clarify, he said he would come home on his own accord to collect meals cooked in batches and I said that’s fine you can also learn a few dishes that way and take them with you. I never forced him to come home on a Friday. He’s decided he’s coming home tonight for dinner, I didn’t ask him, he stated he wanted to.

I don’t think the OPs post was cold hearted at all. She’s run around getting stuff together for him and tried her best for him and he doesn’t really appreciate it all because he doesn’t understand, as he’s been a bit spoiled, as many children are. The mothering gene is very strong and I think a lot of mums go OTT by mistake.

The bank account thing is perhaps not the way I would do it, but you know if he doesn’t like it he can change the password in the full knowledge he will be unable to ask to borrow money from his parents.
It’s fully his choice how he reacts.

As for the contacting the uni himself re money I’m sure a man at 19 can manage. I was out the house at 17 when I fell out with my parents. Learned things through the school of hard knocks. I managed. It will all be fine and this will be the making of him.

Although I hope his mum gives him some advice about contents insurance policy providers and let’s him crack on, (unless of course it’s an extension of home insurance, which she will have to sort as the policy is in her name) with advice to contact her if he gets stuck with the quote and she’ll offer advice.

The sooner he realises she is there to support but not do things for him the better. That way there is a chance he will believe her when she says she will no longer run after him or pay his rent when the landlord comes in January looking for the next instalment and he better have a job or he’ll have to return home. Whereas I think before he would have thought she a soft touch and she’ll capitulate.

Yet you continue to enable him by letting him dictate everything 'I'm coming for dinner tonight' 'I'll come on Friday to pick up the meals you'll have cooked for me'. 'If I have time I'll look into your contents insurance'.

Some adults are ungrateful, spoilt and entitled due to nothing but their own fault.

Elieza I will definitely be here for guidance and advice but for him to think I will do it for him is not going to help him, that’s where I’ve gone wrong. By all means if he wants to look at contents together over the phone or when he visits I will make time but I don’t want to do it for him. I’m not totally abandoning him but I’m taking a step back and giving him his freedom. He wanted to put whatever money he had in my account when we talked about his spending, that’s where me having access cane from because if I had all his money and gave him so much every week how will he learn to money manage or self control. This way I’m there to support and guide but I’m not treating him like a child giving him pocket money. I’m trying to get a balance and it’s not easy. I’m doing my best, I will make mistakes just as I have but I’m learning from them.

PS Elieza I was agreeing with you not defending myself against your post lol. Thank you for not thinking me cold hearted.

I’m not totally abandoning him but I’m taking a step back and giving him his freedom

If you really mean this, you'll be doing everyone in the family - including DS - a massive favour

But do you really mean it, and more particularly will you still mean it when he comes moaning because he's in a mess through his own inaction? Or will it be a re-run of "I'll just get him over this and then no more"?

Right now you'll just be seen as "mum having a rant but she'll get over it" and he's not going to change overnight; real change will be a longer term process and that involves one heck of shift in attitude

Puzzledandpissedoff I totally understand what you mean and I standby what I said, I’m not denying or oblivious to the fact that it won’t be easy but you have to be the change you want to see and unless I change he won’t. I don’t want him to be dependent on me forever, there is a difference between being having a child dependent on you and having a relationship with a child. I want the latter and I can’t have that unless I make him in to the man I want to see, an independent, self sufficient, successful MAN. Otherwise we will end up resenting each other, me because he keeps asking me to support him and him because he’ll be a man child not getting his own way.

Op you seem to keep back tracking. You say one thing and then when someone comments on it you say "no, no. I didn't mean that".

You said

. I have also got his online banking details so I can see what he is spending on, if I am to lend him money for rent/food and I see he is being frivolous I will not lend him any money and also money lent will not exceed £500, any lending will stop when he gets his next instalment.

Now you are saying

He wanted to put whatever money he had in my account when we talked about his spending, that’s where me having access cane from because if I had all his money and gave him so much every week how will he learn to money manage or self control.

They don't sound the same at all. The first sounds controlling and that your offer to help is dependent on him allowing you to control how he spends his money.

From what you say it sounds like you are swinging from one extreme to the other - controlling everything he does or walking away and leaving him to it. There's a middle ground.

As for how do you raise them to be grateful - well they learn they don't get everything that they want, they learn the value of money, they have to say please and thank you, write thank you letters, earn pocket money, save up for things and not get everything immediately...

Did you discuss with him the pros and cons of living at home vs living away? Did he work out how much each would cost, how much loan he would get? How was the decision made to attend this uni and live at home?

It's surprising that he only moved in last night but is coming home tonight. Has he talked to you about what is going on? Is he happy? Why is he coming home less than 24 hours after moving in?

I'd be concerned that there's something not right going on.

Hi Op I well understand the complicated emotions you're all going through. He wants to live the student life and experience independence but still expects his home comforts on tap. You just want him to appreciate you.

How to raise someone to be ungrateful or grateful? Well, you seem to be giving your ds some quite mixed messages here. You're saying to him that he needs to be the one to email uni (fair enough, he's a grown up so needs to take responsibility for himself) but yet you're checking his bank account (Not fair! If he spends all his money on socialising and has nothing left for food that's his choice. Let him learn from the experience.) You're saying you're giving him money for food and rent but he's coming home weekly and getting frozen batch cooking from you. (Some of this feels like micromanagement of his life.)

He wants to be independent and at 19 that's absolutely normal and healthy. Let him go. Wave him goodbye with a happy smile and leave him to work out for himself how far a bag of shopping goes. Then he will start to appreciate you.

Tbh I'd say you sort the correct loan or you stay home. He can live out next year. He already chose staying at home so do it for this year then get student housing next.

How's he affording to come home? That sounds like another unneccessary expense which could be better used him buying food. And he really needs just to look up or google recipes, not have you teach him. Why on earth would you waste your time prepping frozen meals? can he not even boil an egg/make an omelette? Agree with PPs re phone - that'll be taken off him soon as. He needs to check the insurance for contents on the place he's moved into.

OP, I’m glad he’s settled in to uni, I didn’t say in my first post to you but I get how stressful it must have been when plans were suddenly changed and your input was required.

Parenting is such a difficult balancing act, my kids rely on me to help with practical matters and provide lots of emotional support, I don’t know if I get it right but I encourage them all the time to deal with things, sometimes they need reassurance whilst doing so but slowly they do learn more independence. My daughter has grown in confidence whilst living away at uni but she still sometimes needs the reassurance.

Just be careful that by you being in control of his money he won’t learn how to manage it himself, perhaps you need to to begin with but I would only plan on that being a very short term arrangement.

As parents we can only do our best, we don’t always get things right but hindsight is a wonderful thing and so long as it felt right at the time then how could it be wrong.

Ps. I don’t recall my daughter thanking us when we moved her in, or when we did her shopping for supplies but I know she is grateful for all our help. Maybe she did and I missed it through my tears. Lol

YABU. Of course you should help your ds to become independent! That's your job as dm!

You are gutted he is leaving and you are concerned he wont eat/will burn the house down but these two things are not related and I think your upset is making you harsh and unsupportive. If he can't cook by now a couple of lessons at home before he goes won't make much difference. He will learn when he has to.

Do everything you can to help him. Lend him the money until his loan comes through (if you can afford to) and set him up with some meals. Presumably you will be better off when you are not feeding a 19 year old and delivering him to/from the station. His student bank account should in any case give him access to an interest free loan. He will only be 17 miles away so you could suggest he come home for a meal whenever he likes. Perhaps invite him to come home from time to time so you can teach him to cook a meal.

You sound a bit flattening, which I understand as your ds is finally leaving home, but you need to get over that and give him confidence. Let him know if he has problems he can tell you without you saying 'I told you so'. Your job is to help him learn to survive without you. He's making a bold move considering he has a reluctant dm who expects him not to be able to manage on his own. He is missing out a lot living at home while at uni so give him every encouragement you can to go for it.

(And if you are worried about fires make sure there are fire alarms and carbon monoxide alarms in his new home.)

TequilaPilates I’m sorry if I didn’t explain this properly and I think that’s partly due to me not writing the full conversations. I’ll try to clarify. The conversation about me lending him money came up as I’ve previously said and we discussed it at great length about how I am also financially struggling and this will be a strain on us as a family etc. I then spoke to him about if I did lend him money/help him out how will I know that the money he has is not just being spent on going out and at first he said I can put all the money in your account and you can give me what I need on a weekly basis this way you’ll know what I’m spending. I discussed this with him and I said that is well and good but you’re not learning anything, I will be budgeting for you, you should have enough self control to not over spend. That’s when we came up with a mutual decision of him allowing me to see his spending. I hope this clarifies what I meant.
Did you discuss with him the pros and cons of living at home vs living away? yes at great length DH included.
Did he work out how much each would cost, how much loan he would get? Yes the 3 of us did this together prior to him signing up and the attitude was I’ll be fine.
How was the decision made to attend this uni and live at home? It was his decision completely, he never once asked me for any input, he knew exactly what course he wanted to do and he applied to those universities that do that particular course. The university he is attending was his first choice, he got unconditional offers from two universities that required him to stay away from home but he wanted this university and DS’s exact words were A) it is the best for my course and B) I can stay at home and save money.

It's surprising that he only moved in last night but is coming home tonight. this was his decision.

Has he talked to you about what is going on? Is he happy? I’ve not heard from him at all since last night.
Why is he coming home less than 24 hours after moving in? He said this at dinner last night he had not even been in his room at this point.

Just wanted to add, he probably won't thank you for your efforts (at least for a few years) but your approach will make a big difference to him.

Good luck!

The op doesn’t sound coldhearted! He needs to learn the decision to move out is a decision to be an adult. And stop taking his parents for granted.

His suggestion about paying you he money and then you transferring an amount each week is a good one. At least for the first year while he gets his feet. If he’s never had to budget it can be too easy to waste the money

You can work out from his loan (and any contribution you might provide) - an agreed weekly amount for food/living costs. Set up a standing order to transfer each Sunday/Monday - and aim to change to monthly if he can get used to living and sticking to the budget, and then ultimately to him looking after things himself

He can also consider opening a second account so his ‘spending’ account never has full access to the complete loan, he transfers bits at a time

dont lend him the money send him a care package of food and essentials that wont i repeat wont put you into debt he knew the circumstances when he moved out

He is not going to grow up all of a sudden. Help him where you can. He may learn to appreciate your efforts once he steps into the real world. We only have a handful of people very dear to us, dont let temporary financial hardship affect long term affection. Money comes and goes after all.