To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

No more Flora for me, they’ve just announced they’re having nothing to do with the hate site mumsnet. mobile.twitter.com/StopFundingHate/status/1182647264046669824

They didn’t “pick” this site, they were asked to give a reason as to why they were comfortable being affiliated with this specific site due to transphobic posts.

By a person (who is not trans) who pressed criminal charges against a trans person for transphobia - and had her case thrown out.

uncommongroundmedia.com/miranda-yardley-transsexual-prosecuted-transgender-hate-crime/

I hope MNHQ consider legal action. It's very clear they don't tolerate transphobia otherwise the posters who go 'wahwahwah transphobia' would be able to come up with some fucking evidence.

I'd love to be able to boycott Upfield but they only appear to produce nasty greasy shit which I don't buy anyway.

Being told I can't talk about those things because even raising the issue of whether it was a good idea to put a multiple rapist in a women's prison where he went on to sexually assault several of the inmates - because just trying to talk about it would make me a hateful bigot. The whole "no debate" schtick. That's fuck off to the far side of fuck territory as far as I'm concerned

This is exactly it. I actually support trans women using women’s toilets but I cannot bear the nasty bullying which women face for wanting to discuss whether segregation should be by sex or gender.

Flora haven’t divulged exactly why they’ve made this decision. If there’s a few isolated posts they’re concerned about that would be one thing, but the person who complained to them is an absolute fanatic who calls anyone that doesn’t totally capitulate without question transphobic and I won’t buy Flora again if she is the kind of unpleasant person they want to be aligned with.

Flora's disgusting anyway and theyve only 'gone vegan' because it's easy for them and they wanted on a bandwaggon, not through some grand vision of care for anyone or anything.

TRAs are desperate to stop women talking on here because it’s been such an important consciousness raising forum about the issues.

Also, they hate women generally.

I’m surprised they want to be aligned to someone who used the courts to harass a trans woman and had her complaints thrown out with disdain.

I’m surprised they want to be aligned to someone who used the courts to harass a trans woman

Indeed. All publicly available information at the touch of a half-arsed researchers fingertips.

But if all this transphobia is deleted, surely Mumsnet isn't a transphobic site.

It's not though. MN is a post moderated site, I think?
So in other words posts don't get deleted and are left to stand if no-one actively reports them.
Outright is (if it gets reported in the first place which isn't always the case when threads become echo chambers on certain boards) but the skirty guideline stuff is rampant and definitely doesn't get deleted as it's hard to pin. Kind of dog whistly.

It's not at all the same as Twitter. On Twitter I can choose whom to follow. So I don't follow transphobic twitter accounts. Simple.

On MN I mostly avoid the feminist section because that is dominated by anti-trans threads (and has been for some time now). But anti-trans threads still pop up loads if I go into AIBU or 'Active' threads.

I read MN because of the amazing threads (in 'Relationships', etc) that feature women supporting other women. That to me is real feminism in action. Not all the endless threads going on about how trans women aren't women and OMG penises and so on.

Most of the 'transphobic language' is things like someone using the wrong pronoun or not sufficiently tying language in knots to express fact within the very tightly restricted language boundaries of the guidelines. There was a phase when activists came here, joined MN and then had to post way over the line stuff themselves and screen shot it for twitter to 'prove' how awful MN was.

It boils down to women saying no. Never been popular.

Also, MN's definition of what constitutes transphobia is quite narrow. I've reported posts that seem to me to be transphobic and MN has let them stand.

But to me it's not just individual posts, it's the degree of obsession with trans women (trans men, on the other hand, are rarely discussed) and the fact that trans people are so relentlessly portrayed in a negative light.

Are they publishing the investigation?

IME any deviation from the TWAW mantra is considered transphobia. Which effectively means no debate is allowed. Attempting to shut down debate, to silence people because they question is not good.

for mnhq. Thank you for supporting women. I will continue using mumsnet. Have for years. I find it supportive, funny, intelligent, informative. I will no longer buy flora etc.

marfisa

I believe in women supporting women. I do not believe the brand of “feminism” people claiming to be trans rights campaigners supports women. I have been raped. I found it very traumatic. People saying it is transphobic of me (and making sarky comments like “OMG penises ) to panic if expected to get changed in front of someone with a penis is not feminism in action.

Obviously most trans women aren’t rapists, nor are most men - that isn’t the point. The point is it’s an involuntary traumatic reaction. But if I want to talk about it I’m transphobic according to “intersectional feminists”.

Is that “real feminism in action”?

There was a phase when activists came here, joined MN and then had to post way over the line stuff themselves and screen shot it for twitter to 'prove' how awful MN was

OK, will take your word for it, but even if there was, how does that explain some of the regular hardcore posters?
Some of their posts are awful and it's nothing to do with that they've run over from Twitter.

trans men, on the other hand, are rarely discussed)

Wrong, increasingly it's transmen that are discussed as, being born female, they're also in need of all the unique services that women need due to their biology. They are also victims of patriarchal structures, often having either been treated with extreme sexism or abused which is a driving factor in their transition. As the many threads about detransitioning women explores.

Tbh unless you participate daily on FWR, you can't make a judgement.

Well that's the end of all the product tests then.

Maybe people said it was oily yellow gloop and pissed them off.

The focus is on transwomen because of the way transactivism affects women's rights.

but the skirty guideline stuff is rampant and definitely doesn't get deleted as it's hard to pin. Kind of dog whistly.

Go on then, if the evidence is there and has not been deleted, link to it.

I defy anyone to watch this and not think yeah, same old misogyny going on there eh, when it comes to trans men.

Go on then, if the evidence is there and has not been deleted, link to it

You only need a trip to the FWR board to see it, there's no need for me to link.

Not to mention that particular board is followed by a group of self appointed activists who work as 'monitors' and report everything that can possibly be reported. They're quite open about it on twitter, people who were born male, monitoring and supervising women and controlling what they're allowed to say. Not creepy or misogynistic at all.

I'm so sorry you have been raped, quaffy, that is dreadful

I have been sexually assaulted as well.

I will resist the patriarchy in every way I can but I do not see trans women as reinforcing patriarchy or as being more likely than anyone else to commit rape and sexual assault.

Let's campaign to stop rape, not campaign against trans women.

Do get over yourself. There is actual transphobia out there that you are masking with your pearl clutching over pronouns.

Funny, bellesausage, I never mentioned pronouns. But as a matter of fact, I do consider both misgendering and deadnaming to be forms of transphobia.

Oh wow, the post I just quoted from bellesausage has been deleted! That was quick. [wow]

TRAs are desperate to stop women talking on here because it’s been such an important consciousness raising forum about the issues
Exactly. Admittedly I find it hilarious that they're attempting to do so through the medium of fake butter Perhaps they'll try interpretative dance next.

Thank you marfisa and I’m sorry for what happened to you

I don’t agree with your response because I am not suggesting trans women are rapists - the point is discomfort around male bodied people - however that’s fine that we disagree, because my belief is in talking things out respectfully and finding a way forward that is fairest to everyone. I believe that the #nodebate stance and trying to bully women into silence by calling them transphobic if they want to talk about trans issues is completely contrary to that.