To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

No more Flora for me, they’ve just announced they’re having nothing to do with the hate site mumsnet. mobile.twitter.com/StopFundingHate/status/1182647264046669824

Flora is shit anyway.
I'm off to Google what else they make and ensure I never buy it.

Their

The poster in your link says she has been here 10 years

Did you just assume the poster’s gender?

It’s remarkable how this Flora issue has led to so many people feeling they have to name change. And it’s always 10 years isn’t it? No one has ever been here 18 months, or 3 and a half years.

The NHS use of puberty blockers is currently under investigation by the Health Research Authority after concerns were raised regarding the way ethical approval was sought. These concerns also were significant enough to make front page headlines on the British Medical Journal. When you say “excuse” do you think people use this concern as an “excuse” to be transphobic? What do you mean by excuse?

Do you think children should be given treatments that will leave them without the ability to orgasm to treat their gender issues?

I think if they are suicidal all areas need to be looked at. I suspect many parents are desperate and simply want a happy child. That will trump anything.

And still the parachuter claims to discredit continue. Do you search and stalk all the many anti trans threads innocently started?

But the piece I read yesterday it said that kids on the blockers had more suicidal thoughts and this was ‘statistically significant’. So the issues are not ‘fixed’ by medical ‘treatment’.

Do you search and stalk all the many anti trans threads innocently started?hmm

Is this new speak for read?

Yes indeed i read lots of threads

Wait...i search and stalk a lot of threads, is that how i should be saying it?

(Did you mean to write anti trans?)

LifeOf

How do you feel about a company like Flora, (a company, who, I read, apparently, has opened a new base in Uganda, the same country where the law known colloquially as the "Kill The Gays" law, as, or so I've read, it means that men having sex with men is punishable by death), calling a site like Mumsnet, a site you say you frequent, a "hate site"?

As someone who probably agrees with you in the trans debate, I want to ask, do you not find that outrageous?

I honestly don't know how some posters have the energy to hate women so much that they will spend hours belittling and trying to find fault with every reasoned and rational comment made.

And ONLY on trans related stuff. Never pop up to tell us we're "bullying" or "anti men" or "anti work" or whatever on schools or childcare or pay gap or maternity discrimination or wifework threads.

I haven’t seen much condemnation on social media (or the press for that matter) of the Ugandan government - but shot loads of screaming and shouting about the bad old mummies. Why is that?

And still the parachuter claims to discredit continue. Do you search and stalk all the many anti trans threads innocently started?

Innocently? I don’t think there is anything innocent about someone with no posting history starting a deliberately antagonistic thread in FWR. Whenever a thread is started that I think is goady, yes, I search that poster’s history, and unsurprisingly they usually have none. It’s not stalking. It’s pattern recognition. Posting anti-women views with no posting history is common and not innocent. This is a weekly occurrence in FWR. Look at that thread. A single antagonistic line as an opener, no argument offered, hasn’t returned to the thread yet to offer an argument. That’s the sort of thing that has to be put up with regularly.

I think if they are suicidal all areas need to be looked at. I suspect many parents are desperate and simply want a happy child. That will trump anything.

In which case, it should be ensured that treatments don’t make children worse shouldn’t it? Where’s the evidence that puberty blockers and cross sex hormones lead to long term happiness?

I would love an analysis of posters with no posting history reporting threads in FWR vs other topics.

Not incorrectly Sesame. Your post was deleted as was the previous post I reported. MN have finally got back to me.

No, incorrect is precisely what it was. The post that was deleted wasn't one that pointed out you made a spurious accusation of bullying and that this itself is an attempt to bully, so I presume I'm still ok to say that. You started that tactic before I mentioned the thing that got the post deleted, so when you made the accusation of bullying that could not have been what you meant.

TLDR: nope.

Not sure to be honest, I don’t know the context in relation to where all the other companies we use have bases or trade. There are many dubious countries for all sorts of reasons.The sudden palm oil outrage focused on Flora is shown up for what it is when you look at the scale of companies involved.

I haven’t seen much condemnation on social media (or the press for that matter) of the Ugandan government - but shot loads of screaming and shouting about the bad old mummies. Why is that?

Well the kindest answer would be ignorance, but the use of that term was strongly objected to yesterday. So perhaps it's because the people supporting this boycott genuinely are happy with a company that chooses to engage in a platform supporting hate and with a government that persecutes gay people.

So anti trans threads are innocently started?

Just seems a weird stance to take

No more flora for me too. Not that I ever ate it, so impact will be minimal.
We need free speech to be able to challenge the current trendy trans orthodoxy. That does not equate to hate or phobia.
Have you seen this:-?
www.heather-brunskell-evans.co.uk/body-politics/inventing-transgender-children-and-young-people-2/
Academics are also being bullied and threatened.

I think if they are suicidal all areas need to be looked at. I suspect many parents are desperate and simply want a happy child. That will trump anything.

The sheer chutzpah of this type of deliberately manipulative, emotively worded misrepresention is so typical.

And so revealing. No rational, reasoned argument? Never mind, we'll just use a whole boatload of logical fallacies and handwringing arguments propped up on half-truths to get round that.

WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!

Have you had a suicidal child?

And re ignorance, right back at you. The scale of palm oil in everyday products seems to have been a revelation to some on this thread. I see no call to arms re boycotting specific other companies, probably due to the subsequent empty cupboards this would entail. The same applies to boycotting companies for other reasons. I find it interesting that Flora and Uganda are the focus, no other companies or countries?

I find it interesting that Flora and Uganda are the focus, no other companies or countries?hmm

Classic! Everyone asks “why is Mumsnet the target for its values, but no one is looking at Upfields and their relationship with Uganda?” and your response is “Why is everyone focusing on Upfields relationship with Uganda, and not other companies or countries?” without any apparent irony.

@Lifeof333s

Not sure to be honest, I don’t know the context in relation to where all the other companies we use have bases or trade. There are many dubious countries for all sorts of reasons.The sudden palm oil outrage focused on Flora is shown up for what it is when you look at the scale of companies involved.

Right, I'm not asking you to cast judgement on them as a company, but do you not find the hypocrisy of a company like this CALLING MN A HATE SITE outrageous?

I agree, many companies have dubious fingers in dubious pies, but most of them do not call websites where most bigoted things at least are moderated a hate site.

Everyone else finds it interesting that Mumsnet is the focus of Upfields “values” but not other websites, but you’re nicely shifting it.

I refuse to buy/shop in plenty of places and the list is getting longer. I haven’t bought anything (knowingly) with palm oil in it for years now.

I think it’s good for people to start thinking about who they hand their money to. Something will chime and that gets you wondering what else businesses are doing that you find disagreeable. This is one such instance.

You can’t knock people for not examining every transaction forensically and score them before deciding whether to part from their cash.

I don’t think people boycott as much as they did back in the 80s and 90s. Maybe they do but I was brought up with a mum who had a raft of businesses and brands that she wouldn’t use (this was in the 70s and earlier).

And re ignorance, right back at you. The scale of palm oil in everyday products seems to have been a revelation to some on this thread. I see no call to arms re boycotting specific other companies, probably due to the subsequent empty cupboards this would entail.

There doesn't need to be a call to arms, as very many people already scrutinise labels and won't buy anything containing palm oil. Your mention of its use being 'a revelation to some' is disingenuous - I mentioned being shocked at its use in packet soups, JusRol etc., others mentioned biscuits. Do you think we noted the palm oil content, then bought the stuff anyway? There's plenty of discussion on here and on facebook about palm oil, and what its cultivation is doing to the environment.

I find it interesting that Flora and Uganda are the focus, no other companies or countries?

I wonder who started this all off by publicly dropping MN? Do you know, I can't possibly remember. If you want to suggest a general palm oil or Uganda boycott, best start another thread. This one is about Upfield and their blatant hypocrisy on the issue of human rights.

HTH