Trans issue at work

[NooneToldMeItWasRaining]

I work with someone that is a trans activist and while i support their right to identify as they wish, I don't subscribe to the philosophy that you should be able
to change your biological sex on your birth certificate or that gender stereotypes define who you are as a person.

I really like this person, but i struggle with their outspoken views e.g. that transwomen should participate in women's sport and to say otherwise is hateful, that some women have penises, that she is a lesbian (they are a transwoman in a relationship with a biological woman) and trying to get us to add pro nouns to our emails.

I haven't said anything and I do like her, but I am struggling with these outspoken views so at odds with my own beliefs (and common sense!). I don't want to add sodding pro nouns to my email!!

Is there any way of politely refuting any of this stuff or do I have to sit and smile and nod along

[StillWeRise]

But there is a problem!
OP can't get away from this person, they work together.
Imagine you are Hindu, and you had to work with someone who regularly expected you to light a candle in front of a crucifix and say grace before eating lunch!
We don't bring our personal beliefs to work- unless they are specifically requested eg I like to hear about my colleague's Haj, but she doesn't expect me to pray with her.

[outherealone]

I’m so fucking sick of this issue. I don’t care if I get flamed but I don’t feel I can speak openly about it anywhere. The infiltration of women only spaces , the suggestion that lesbians must fuck a woman with a penis if she identifies as a trans lesbian, the fact that so many of our other marginalised groups and liberal socialist minded folk are taking on trans as yet another cause that it’s becoming tantamount to right wing bigotry if you dare question it.
Im as left wing as they come but I’m not blinded by this emperors new clothes trick by men.
Sadly, many of my friends are and it’s a very contentious issue with non trans people crying about it. It’s making me feel like I’ve lost my voice and that the women’s movement is going backwards.

[Mummybares]

I think id bite my tongue as it could backfire on you being discriminatory. just change topic and avoid.

[NooneToldMeItWasRaining]

Well no, she wants us all to put our pro nouns on emails actually. I have no issue with refering to her as 'her'. That's her choice (though i think of her as a transwoman not a woman)

I genuinely don't think I am creating a problem where there isn't one pepe. I am trying to avoid confrontation or uspetting her, but I am tied in knots because fairly frequently beliefs I really don't agree with and think are damaging to women are loudly presented as fact. For example a few months ago when the programme was on about transwomen and sport she was slagging off the sports women who took part. That upset me as I think they were extremely brave to speak out.

She is senior to me also, which is another factor.

[nocoolnamesleft]

"Darling, if you're aiming to present female, you really need to cut back on the mansplaining"

[NooneToldMeItWasRaining]

love it nocoolnames

[user1498572889]

@outherealone
What you said.

[mbosnz]

"Darling, if you're aiming to present female, you really need to cut back on the mansplaining"

Oooof!

If she's senior, that's even more inappropriate.

What happened to not talking about sex, religion, money or politics at work? Really did avoid a whole host of problems. (If you envelop gender under sex).

[Zzz1234]

LOve it

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

One way to look at your silence is not as being complicit, but as refusing to validate this person, because you can't win for losing in this game.

And head for the loo when she starts to bang on
That wont help if said person simply follows them in there.

[WotchaTalkinBoutWillis]

According to the OP, the only thing the transwoman has asked her to actually DO is change the pronoun used in emails, which is fairly easily ignored

What @badsun said. All the rest surely you could just tune out and smile and nod/glaze over kind of like I do when the topic turns towards Brexit
She's entitled to her views, you're entitled to yours. (Though it is a bit strange if she's banging on about penises and stuff at work, surely that's an inappropriate work topic to start with and a whole other thread lol

[OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg]

outherealone everything you said, with knobs on (no pun intended).

OP I’d probably ignore the pronoun request and if badgered about it, I’d just say something like “I’ve never really seen the point of putting pronouns on emails, if someone is emailing me they’re either using my name or ‘you’ and if they’re using a pronoun to talk about me then I mustn’t be there so I don’t really care what they call me” and walk away.

[HumberElla]

and trying to get us to add pro nouns to our emails

Nope. Do not adopt pronouns in correspondence. There is very good evidence that, due to unconscious bias, you will be much more likely to suffer sex discrimination if you constantly remind people you are female. Masses of evidence on this.

Surely sex discrimination and unconscious bias should be cracked down upon in the workplace very firmly indeed, no?

[NearlyGranny]

What does she mean by asking everyone to put pronouns on their emails, actually?

Does she want everyone to have a line in their sign-off saying "I identify as a woman and my pronouns are she, her and hers" or something?

Is that wider company policy?

Also, I'd be wondering how she and the rest of you actually get anything done - or is all this talk just in break times?

I'd be tempted to say, "Calm down, dear; the novelty will wear off before you know it "

[YouJustDoYou]

As with religious beliefs, you don't have to subscribe to them/be negative about it/discuss it etc.

[Aberhonddu]

@outherealone

I'm so fucking sick of this issue. don’t care if I get flamed but I don’t feel I can speak openly about it anywhere, The infiltration of women only spaces, the suggestion that lesbians must fuck a woman with a penis if she identifies as a trans lesbian, the fact that so many of our other marginalised groups and liberal socialist minded folk are taking on trans as yet another cause that it’s becoming tantamount to right wing bigotry if you dare question it.
Im as left wing as they come but I’m not blinded by this emperors new clothes trick by men.
Sadly, many of my friends are and it’s a very contentious issue with non trans people crying about it. It's making me feel like I’ve lost my voice and that the women’s movement is going backwards
You are most definitely not alone, there are hundreds of women that feel the same.
I would have been willing to be sympathetic and use preferred pronouns and share toilet facilities but not any more.
Fuck that now. To quote Magdalen Berns, I rather be rude than be a liar.
Op all I can suggest that you do is, don't engage, we all know that you'll come off worst.
This misogynistic homophobic ideology has most of our institutions in its grip and I reckon that things will get worse before they get better......if they ever do

[WotchaTalkinBoutWillis]

I'd be telling him he's welcome to live in his own fantasy world but I'm sticking to my right to believe in proven science and reject his misogyny.

You'd really come out with all that towards a colleague in the workplace?
Yeah, can't see any complaint made about you at all if you did.

[HatingTheBigShow]

I don't understand re pronouns. Does this person want your email to go from [email protected] to Mr.dave.smith? Why? What about all the women, you know, actual ones with vaginas and everything, who don't want to bring their marital status into the workplace? I'm open about the fact that I'm married, changed my surname, wear a ring but I don't want to be professionally defined by it.

[WotchaTalkinBoutWillis]

Top bit was a quote and supposed to be bolded.

[NearlyGranny]

Or, you could decide that you identify as male, demand everyone respects and remembers your pronouns are he, him, his and use the gents; the one place she will never follow you.

[WotchaTalkinBoutWillis]

@hatingthebigshow I don't think it's so much Mr, Miss, Mrs etc and more if referring to the person as she or he as appropriate.
So for example I'd be a she/her.