Trans issue at work

[NooneToldMeItWasRaining]

I work with someone that is a trans activist and while i support their right to identify as they wish, I don't subscribe to the philosophy that you should be able
to change your biological sex on your birth certificate or that gender stereotypes define who you are as a person.

I really like this person, but i struggle with their outspoken views e.g. that transwomen should participate in women's sport and to say otherwise is hateful, that some women have penises, that she is a lesbian (they are a transwoman in a relationship with a biological woman) and trying to get us to add pro nouns to our emails.

I haven't said anything and I do like her, but I am struggling with these outspoken views so at odds with my own beliefs (and common sense!). I don't want to add sodding pro nouns to my email!!

Is there any way of politely refuting any of this stuff or do I have to sit and smile and nod along

[itsahardknocklife87]

You are entitled to an opinion of course but I wouldn't even entertain it at work. Be professional

[HotChocWithCream]

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis but they are not a he or a she though are they? And while you may not think this is a big deal it REALLY IS.

Jonathon Yaniv is a perfect example of the potential problems accepting trans woman as woman can cause.

[Wheat2Harvest]

I would say, "Look, I'm really not interested in trans activism. Can you please leave me out of it as I have work to do."

And if they continue to bang on, report it to HR as harassment.

[upaladderagain]

I always understood that pronouns were 'she', 'he' and 'it'.

[taytosandwich]

You're in work so be professional even if this person isn't. Say nothing, don't engage, completely ignore. Do your work, go home, vent to friends.

[stucknoue]

I don't get the pronouns on emails thing surely there's already a convention that solves this : mr/Mrs/ms. If my signature says Mrs then they know to use she!

[suggestionsplease1]

I don't get why it's such a big deal to try to respect how somebody else self - identifies?

What about intersex people, who have variations is sex characteristics so that they do not fit the typical definitions of male and female bodies? If an intersex person chose to identify as male, because that's what they felt most closely aligned to, would you be disrespectful to them and insist on saying her/ she because, to your mind, they looked more like a woman? Why are so many posters making it about them and their feelings?

It is well know that the brain structure and activation patterns of trans people more closely resemble their desired gender than ther 'born' gender: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

The science is well known now; there is biological underpinning to the sense that physical body does match your gender identity. Who is anyone else to ignore that and disrespect another person's lived experiences?

[AutumnRose1]

stuck and if it says Mx?

Seriously, I can't bear all this shit either but OP whatever you do, tread carefully.

[MrGsFancyNewVagina]

Why would that effect me though? If it makes someone obviously trans more comfortable, and need to point it out whilst transitioning, that's good but it means nothing to me if I put she/her at the bottom of mine?

It’s enforced speech. It’s forcing you to go along with a delusional belief. If you agree to use pronouns on your online/paper communications, then you have to pretend that you believe that Harriet, with the female pronoun and intact male genitalia is a woman, because they use she/her on their communications.

It’s a tiny drip in a concerted effort to flood society with fake pronouns and enforced speech. Where is the line you will refuse to be pushed over? Unisex toilets, where you are expected to share with the AGPs as well as the decent transsexuals? The open plan changing rooms, with the trans person with a penis? Will you open your legs and let the ‘woman’ with the tattoos, muscles, penis and deep voice to do your smears, because that person insists, that although you wanted a female nurse, because of past bad experiences with men, they identify as a woman. Being told you’re a bigot, because you can’t cope with being on a female psychiatric unit with a male bodied person, because they ‘identify’ as a woman. It doesn’t matter if you’re absolutely terrified and it is impacting further on your mental health issues. Where’s your line, or don’t you have one?

[HotChocWithCream]

@suggestionsplease1

It’s IS a big deal in many situations and I don’t believe that trans rights trump other rights.

Let’s say you are biologically female and work from home alone doing intimate wax - ie Brazilian was services. Should you HAVE to wax a biological males or is because he identifies as a female? What if your religion forbids you to touch males other than your partner?

Johnathon Yaniv believes you should legally have to perform this service. His rights trump your discomfort and religion.

It’s not on.

[HotChocWithCream]

Males penis*

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

What about intersex people, who have variations is sex characteristics so that they do not fit the typical definitions of male and female bodies? If an intersex person chose to identify as male, because that's what they felt most closely aligned to, would you be disrespectful to them and insist on saying her/ she because, to your mind, they looked more like a woman? Why are so many posters making it about them and their feelings?

You have zero understanding of the intersex disorder.

And not only that, you have dragged the intersex community into a completely unrelated topic to score points, despite the fact the societies (set up an run by intersex people) have repeatedly asked not to be weaponised like this, as part of this militant trans rights agenda.

[MrGsFancyNewVagina]

What about intersex people, who have variations is sex characteristics so that they do not fit the typical definitions of male and female bodies? If an intersex person chose to identify as male, because that's what they felt most closely aligned to, would you be disrespectful to them and insist on saying her/ she because, to your mind, they looked more like a woman? Why are so many posters making it about them and their feelings?

Intersex people have absolutely nothing to do with trans and have asked not to be used to further the trans activism. To use the genetic differences of this group of people to further a cause that has NOTHING to do with them, is disgusting and intersex people, very very few exceptions are either male or female.

The study into the differences in brains DO NOT prove that those males who are trans are more closely aligned to the female brain. It showed that if people follow certain roles in society, then their brains ‘change’ in line with that behaviour. If you carry out certain behaviours over and over again, then your brain will adapt. Look further into the research, rather than looking at the bits that were cherry picked by the TRAs.

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

It is well know that the brain structure and activation patterns of trans people more closely resemble their desired gender than ther 'born' gender: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htmm*

Absolute bullshit.

[MrGsFancyNewVagina]

*intersex people, with very very few exceptions are either male or female.

[HandsOffMyRights]

Suggestions

You talk about respect and then bring intersex into a discussion about trans?

Unbelievable!

[MrGsFancyNewVagina]

Absolute bullshit.

You put it much more succinctly than me. 🤣

[Pandaintheporridge]

there is biological underpinning to the sense that physical body does match your gender identity
I have no idea what this means

[Durgasarrow]

Unfortunately, people do lose their jobs over this bullshit, so you have to watch how you say things. There are ways to insulate yourself, however. When your colleague starts railing on, you can say, coolly,, "Let's talk about other matters." Or, "Let's return to professional matters." Since they seek enthusiastic validation, not just silence, this will still sting, since they will know you are saying they are being unprofessional and boring. And if you want to be mean, I suppose you could say, "I'm sure that this subject could be discussed all day, but there's work to be done."

[Durgasarrow]

As far as YOU being forced to use pronouns, I would vehemently object on the grounds that women still face economic, social and political discrimination for being women. Being forced to put female pronouns on an email reinforces a female identity and invites further discrimination. So that's a hard no. Women have a right not to be discriminated against.

[dadshere]

You are in a very difficult situation. I work with someone who has 'transitioned' from M to F. I couldn't care less. I don't want to talk about how hard it is being a 'woman' or a 'transwoman' or anything else with this person. I just want to work, then go home to my daughter. She is CONSTANTLY bringing it up, but has 100% support of HR. Tread carefully.

[HotChocWithCream]

@theunknownknown

Exactly!

It genuinely terrifies me that there are women out there who believe this nonsense to be “no big deal”. They are not seeing the bigger picture - the erosion of women’s sex based rights.

[HandsOffMyRights]

I am reminded of the poor women in Celeb Big Brother who had to tiptoe around India Willoughby and then India's outburst.