Trans issue at work

[NooneToldMeItWasRaining]

I work with someone that is a trans activist and while i support their right to identify as they wish, I don't subscribe to the philosophy that you should be able
to change your biological sex on your birth certificate or that gender stereotypes define who you are as a person.

I really like this person, but i struggle with their outspoken views e.g. that transwomen should participate in women's sport and to say otherwise is hateful, that some women have penises, that she is a lesbian (they are a transwoman in a relationship with a biological woman) and trying to get us to add pro nouns to our emails.

I haven't said anything and I do like her, but I am struggling with these outspoken views so at odds with my own beliefs (and common sense!). I don't want to add sodding pro nouns to my email!!

Is there any way of politely refuting any of this stuff or do I have to sit and smile and nod along

[earlynightneeded]

I'd just reply ok sir I understand 😂

[MrsKCastle]

I would decline to put 'my' pronouns on anything, as I don't believe I have the right to dictate how people speak about me.

If anyone insisted, I would use:
'My pronouns are I/me/my' because it's the only thing that makes sense.

[Didactylos]

Its very bland and unarguable, but true though! just really boring practical reasons why I think its shit and decline to take part in it.

Ive become a lot more sensitive to these issues myself as Ive had to work in other languages and cultures more recently so have been on the other side of the 'politeness/rules/cultural disadvantage' barrier. Many of our institutions and companies form their own little cultural bubbles with such conventions, and it makes engagement harder for those who dont get all the shibboleths and somehow dont fit - and I know Ive taken part in this sort of thing without even thinking about it: and have decided its something I am making a concious effort to challange.

Never comes up in my second language though

[JavaQ]

"yes yes, lovely dear,- now who would like a coffee?"

[MrGsFancyNewVagina]

You might not like what she has to say, but I think using pronouns is worth it for an easy life.

Good grief! Do you roll over and let them scratch your belly too? The suffragettes died for women’s rights to vote and now women are being advised to agree with a male’s misogynistic bullying at work, for an easy life. Good grief.

It is bullying, because this is more senior member of staff dictating to other staff, in particular females, as to what constitutes a woman and that they should agree with him. As to those saying that it’s easy for a woman to speak out about this issue, I take it you’ve not actually tried speaking out AGAINST these beliefs. Go on, I dare you to speak out on Facebook or in work and see how that goes.

Stop telling the OP that she’ll be fired for discrimination if she speaks out against this male's views. it is not discriminatory to disagree to go along with compelled speech.

[ethelredonagoodday]

I'm also with @outherealone.

[AnyOldPrion]

I think in 10 years it's possible it'll be standard to add pronouns to email

I very much hope not. I read someone’s description of a meeting the other day. The person chairing it asked everyone to introduce themselves and give their pronouns. The first person, also the speaker, stood up and introduced himself, omitting his pronouns. Every other person then followed suit. A quiet protest, but unanimous.

And at Edinburgh University fresher’s week last year 80% of students when asked, stated they were against the pronoun badges provided.

The vast majority of the UK population are getting tired of the pressure to comply with this very pushy agenda. They are mostly still quiet as they’ve been told time and again that to object is the most heinous crime anyone ever committed. But women are beginning to overcome their reticence, and I believe once it hits a critical mass, all those who are unhappy at the pressure to do something that makes them deeply uncomfortable will raise their voices loud enough to stop it.

As someone else above implied, most people with she/her in their signature are actually male transitioners. They don’t want to stand out, but rather than behaving like everyone else, they are trying to insist everyone else behaves like them. This can reach the point of being coercive and there will be backlash.

[MrGsFancyNewVagina]

she is otherwise very funny, kind and intelligent this person is not kind, because this male is using position to force this male bodied person’s views on others. Either this male bodied person is intelligent enough to see other people’s discomfort and doesn’t care (not kind) or doesn’t so keeps rambling on. (Not intelligent)

Definitely not a lesbian because they were born with a penis. Lesbians don’t and have never had a penis.

[FeminismandWomensFights]

She’s senior to you, and it’s probably not worth rocking the boat over, so just be boringly unresponsive. The only response you need to give is “I’m not comfortable discussing politics at work.”

Shut it down, change the subject, and keep it all strictly work-related.

I think this is great advice. The message you are saying with that, very politely but firmly (and rightly) that each person’s beliefs are their own.

[Schoolchoicesucks]

I've recently started working for a new organisation. The majority of my colleagues have their preferred pronouns in their email signature. I'd say 75% of them wear pronoun badges too.
I'm not currently doing either. I don't see why someone who emailing me needs to know my sex or gender and would expect them to use the 2nd person when referring to me.
I don't know how I would be able to respond if asked directly to do so.
All toilets are unisex.

[EL2019]

Schoolchoucesucks - I saw a comment on here that says turn the language of victimisation back on them.
“I find that request very triggering and it makes me feel unsafe at work”.

If required to follow that up tell them it’s not your job to educate them on unconscious bias.

[HotChocWithCream]

The whole pronouns in an email thing is part of a much bigger agenda I do not and will never subscribe to.

If people want to try and live a of delusion that’s their business but I’ll be damned if they think I’m pandering to it.

Sex CANNOT be changed. End of. Trans men are not men just as trans women are not women.

Anyone who doesn’t “get the big deal” and figures “it’s just an email signature “ please google “Jonathan Yaniv” and see how comfortable that sits with you.

[EmpressoftheMundane]

OP, the advice to not talk politics in the workplace, or to complain to HR/manager may not be a good idea in the present climate.
The state and most HR departments are all in on pandering to trans people and anything short of complete validation won’t be countenanced. It’s only the general population that still thinks this stuff is “controversial.”

[WotchaTalkinBoutWillis]

The suffragettes died for women’s rights to vote and now women are being advised to agree with a male’s misogynistic bullying at work, for an easy life. Good grief

How is it bullying?
All she's done is mention pronouns. The rest you can just tune out, surely.

[WickedWitchOfTheDesk]

I feel fully able to speak up about it and I work in the NHS! There was a very good article in the BMJ the other day, which sparked a discussion with a (male) med student. He totally got it. I make a point of refusing point blank to refer to any trans patients by their chosen pronouns and my colleagues know exactly why. I treat them perfectly nicely as I would all our patients but will not have my speech compelled.

[TheGoogleMum]

Ugh I am not anti trans (although I don't entirely disagree with some of the points made on here... I know very few so shouldn't generalise but in my experience they have very fixed stereotypical ideas about what it means to be male or female which I disagree with) but the pronoun thing would annoy me. I don't think I even use he or she very often in emails anyway so why would it even be relevant?

[DrawingLife]

Suspended
"New starter, wanted everyone to refer to them as 'they'
Now this in practise is quite hard to do. It's a butchery of language and most people assume you are talking about more than one person 'oh they were due to submit this by X' etc.
We got the email from them demanding our pronouns."

What gets me is that even on an anonymous forum far away from work that this person will never see you still feel you have to say "they". It's a form of brainwashing.

[EL2019]

It’s not just “mentioning pronouns”. It’s about someone insisting that everyone states their pronouns at the bottom of every email.

[Aberhonddu]

I definitely wouldn't use the phrase I'm not comfortable discussing politics at work
To this male transitioner, it's personal not Political. If you use that expression then it will give him a green light to start a discussion.
Maybe just be all breezy and light and totally ignore anything he's says that's not related to work.

[XXcstatic]

It's so tricky. I occasionally work with a TW. As a person, I like her. But it is so uncomfortable and tiring to have to pretend that I think she is a woman. It is an imposition on me - just as it would be if I was having to pretend that a 50 year old was really 25, or a black person was white. I have to constantly police my own behaviour and words so that I don't let slip that I 'know' she is trans when, in reality, it is perfectly obvious that I know, that she knows I know, that I know she knows I know etc etc.

It's not really about the trans issue at all, as she has never said or done anything that remotely impinges on women's rights. It's about being forced to pretend I believe a lie. Why is her lie more important than my truth? Why are her feelings more important than mine?

[LeekMunchingSheepShagger]

I completely agree with everything you've said but you need to be very careful what you say to him/her in the workplace, before you end up in front of HR for gross misconduct.

[Aberhonddu]

He says not he's says

[ChestOfFields]

Totally agree with @outherealone

Also, I've realised how much there is to this, thanks to Magdalen Berns
(Thanks to the feminism boards for the link a couple of years back!)

Yet again the misogynists are trying to make women do as they are told..

[WotchaTalkinBoutWillis]

It’s about someone insisting that everyone states their pronouns at the bottom of every email
Why would that effect me though? If it makes someone obviously trans more comfortable, and need to point it out whilst transitioning, that's good but it means nothing to me if I put she/her at the bottom of mine?

[Catsandchardonnay]

Just state you feel that your sex is irrelevant to the everyday work you do so you prefer not to use or emphasise language that specifies or draws attention to sex or gender.

^^ this times a million. These things are only a thing if someone makes them one. What relevance does someone’s sex or gender have in a workplace? You wouldn’t ask someone to sign their emails off “I have a penis/vagina” would you?