Trans issue at work

[NooneToldMeItWasRaining]

I work with someone that is a trans activist and while i support their right to identify as they wish, I don't subscribe to the philosophy that you should be able
to change your biological sex on your birth certificate or that gender stereotypes define who you are as a person.

I really like this person, but i struggle with their outspoken views e.g. that transwomen should participate in women's sport and to say otherwise is hateful, that some women have penises, that she is a lesbian (they are a transwoman in a relationship with a biological woman) and trying to get us to add pro nouns to our emails.

I haven't said anything and I do like her, but I am struggling with these outspoken views so at odds with my own beliefs (and common sense!). I don't want to add sodding pro nouns to my email!!

Is there any way of politely refuting any of this stuff or do I have to sit and smile and nod along

@ethelfleda yes I could see that a white person wanting to identify as African and then be given all the access to hard fought for African provisions etc would be really offensive. I wonder why it’s not offensive as women? And I don’t take much notice of all the trans debate but this does strike me as offensive.

I also keep seeing so much aggressive ‘you must conform to my rights’ and I don’t understand why there is so much aggression and why I, or the OP, or anyone else needs to do anything or say anything in order for others ‘rights’?

Genuinely do not understand.

I don’t understand why my comment was against guidelines. I didn’t misgender anyone or use language not allowed.

I wonder why it’s not offensive as women?

It is to many of us! But in too many spheres now we are shouted down if we dare to express that we find the appropriation of womenhood offensive, and are made to feel that we are the ones offending rather than the offended against.

I don't think MN gets their trans moderation right a lot of the time and I think the rules should be clearer, but I am nonetheless grateful that this is one of the few spaces where I can say "I don't believe men can become women" and have the post stand.

I’ve just seen MN has tweeted about reporting and free speech re trans related subjects. It’s probably having a concerted attack from TRAs and we are being closely watched.

I find this all pretty scary to be honest

Biological males should not have the right to dictate what makes someone a woman/female.

Thx for the info. This is how I feel. 🤐

You do realise that it doesn't make any difference if your thoughts are due to religion? IT's not a get out with regard to your behaviour towards someone who is gay, transgender etc

Surely it depends what the behavior is. I worked and was friendly with a Muslim woman who thought homosexuality is wrong. I'm Bi. I wasn't offended by my friend because she didn't discriminate against non-heterosexuals or say anything discriminatory. She worked with and got on with the young gay lad we had working with us.

She just treated people as people, so not a problem for me.

You’ll find lots of fellow transphobics women who feel entitled to keep the rights they've fought long and hard for in here though

Fixed your post for you icedgem.

Squishee, and others asking, pronouns come in all persons, genders and cases, singular and plural. Personal pronouns replace names and titles. All the following are pronouns:
I me mine you your yours she her hers he him his we our ours they their theirs myself yourself herself himself ourselves themselves

Take your pick from the bunch or invent some.

It's a minefield writing and especially speaking to anyone who has changed their pronouns and is alert to any accidental slip or deliberate 'deadnaming'.

I don't think it needs to be like this!

Interesting how my comment was deleted from making an accurate observation. I guess any comment that doesn't devoutly pander to trans rights is likely to be censored, as usual.

If just identify myself as an adult human female if I was you 😂

You're doing a good job demonstrating OP's point woodchuck99. That if she does anything that can be seen as non-compliance she could be on thin ice.

Considering that my point is that she doesn't need to discuss anything apart from work because she is supposed to be working and that she doesn't need to change her signature on the say so of this colleague I'm not sure what you mean by that.

And my point was that people chat at work. It's what normal people do. The trans colleague obviously feels empowered to chat.

And my point was that people chat at work. It's what normal people do. The trans colleague obviously feels empowered to chat.

Where I work everyone gets on with their work and certainly doesn't chat about anything controversial especially with their line managers.

Is this like the new veganism?

How do you know someone's a vegan? Because they never fucking shut up about it.

I’ve just seen MN has tweeted about reporting and free speech re trans related subjects. It’s probably having a concerted attack from TRAs and we are being closely watched

Just gone through the hashtag to have a look -according to Stop Funding Hate's account it looks like Flora's company have just ended their partnership with Mumsnet so maybe that's why they've just tweeted about their stance on trans issues?

Interesting how my comment was deleted from making an accurate observation

Um.... at the risk of using an old favourite word on here.... "define" accurate observation as it must have been deleted for a reason/breaking talk guidelines lol.

I guess any comment that doesn't devoutly pander to trans rights is likely to be censored, as usual

If that were true, almost the entire thread would be gone. So maybe, just maybe, you said something that broke the rules!

crosses Flora off the shopping list

Two can play that game

Two can play that game
I'm sure they'll have just as much support for their stance than they don't tbh

It is terrifying that stating biological facts and defending women's rights (or in mumsnet's case, simply allowing the debate) is so contentious. I think most of us are very much live and let live about people's own identity, but I won't accept that 'some women have penises' or that biological males should be allowed to compete against women. FFS. It is insane. The world has gone mad.

Do you think wotcha? More outspoken support probably. The silent majority is another matter.