to think if you're worried about gender disappointment, it's best not to find out the baby's sex until the birth?

[Valanice1989]

On various parenting forums, I quite frequently see threads from women who are "devastated" to learn their baby's sex at the anomaly scan (boys seem to be the main source of disappointment). In almost all of these threads, at least one person says, "Don't worry, once your baby is born, you'll love them so much that you wouldn't swap them for the world."

If this is true, surely gender disappointment can be skipped altogether simply by not asking to learn the sex at the scan in the first place? I'm not saying it'll work in every case: Anne Bolelyn is proof that gender disappointment existed long before scans. Similarly, I doubt the men who insist that their wives have abortions because their culture views girls as inferior would be capable of loving a daughter under any circumstances. But barring strict cultural beliefs or severe mental illness, surely most people won't be disappointed in the baby once it's actually here?

@NearlyGranny Loved your post! Henry VIII indeed!
I think it's just procrastination. Be disappointed at birth. Which is even worse. At least, if they find out first, they have a few months to get a grip and be thankful they can be parents of a beautiful being.

You can't grieve for something that hasn't died

That is a foolish statement. Of course you can. There isn't one type of grief.

With my second I was convinced it was a girl. My first baby had been a boy.

I started imagining what it would be like to have a daughter, thinking about names, wondering if she would look like me, how my son would react to having a sister etc and it was nice to do that and I enjoyed thinking about having a daughter.

At the 20 week scan, still convinced it was going to be a girl, we asked to find out and it turned out the baby was a boy.

I will admit that I felt disappointed and tearful. I wasn’t disappointed because it was a boy specifically, I was just disappointed because I knew this was going to be our last baby and so I knew now that I was never going to have a daughter and that made me feel sad.

I put on a cheery face and tried to join in with my DH’s excitement so he and the sonographer wouldn’t sense how I truly felt, but inside I just felt a bit sad.

I spent the next few days adjusting to the fact that I was never going to experience what it was like to have a daughter and pushed all those imagined scenarios out of my mind for good, and then started to focus on how life would be with another son.

I would say it took me a good week to mentally/emotionally come to terms with the situation, but as soon as I had the happiness and excitement about having a baby boy started to seep in and then I was fine about it all.

He is now 2 and I am so, so, so glad I had a boy. I love having my two little sons and the relationship they have with each other is incredibly special and I can’t believe how lucky I am.

If I hadn’t have found out the sex at the 20 week scan it would have meant I would have spect the entire pregnancy believing it was a girl and spending even longer fantasising about the daughter I thought I was going to have. I can’t imagine how I would have felt if they then shouted “it’s a boy” after the birth.

I would rather have had a week of sadness/disappointment during the middle of the pregnancy, than a week (or longer) of sadness and disappointed when the baby arrived because I imagine that in some cases that could really affect the bonding process.

I find this thread very uncomfortable reading after one poster has honestly and eloquently shared her story of distress, grief and illness, only to be mocked by posters who belittle her experience because it isn't in DSM5. I don't know how you can read her post about her experience and then swan in and be so mean, even if you don't agree with her

FWIW I didn't have disappointment over the sex of my baby but I did experience a strong preference, even though I had had a miscarriage and lost a baby at 20 weeks.

Not RTFT but I dont agree with you OP. With my first I had convinced myself that I was having a boy and I found out at my 20 weeks scan that I was having a girl, not going to lie, i was disappointed, but it gave me time to get used to the idea of having a girl before I had her. I had PND anyway and if i had had gender disappointment too after having her, I dont think I would have bonded with her at all those first few months.
So if there is any chance there will be gender disappointment, I think you are better finding out at the scan.

We hated the idea of people shouting out at delivery, so in my birth letter we asked that nobody announce anything. The midwife reminded everyone just before delivery (twin delivery, registrar, epidural, forceps, two parts with resusc cots, 11 people present not counting DH and me) so we discovered for ourselves. It wasn't the first thing we knew about them. Well, with DS it was, as he was passed over my face and all I saw was a scrotum practically the size of his head...

Paeds, not parts!

@Inlovewitharagorn

Women often feel they can't admit these things and I'd wondered why. Now I realise it's because there's a whole community of incredibly judgmental narrow-minded women who can't imagine what they've never experienced and therefore assume it's not real.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I had a traumatic birth due to the care I received. One consultant’s behaviour was bad enough she was pushed to resign. I plastered on a smile but inside I was a mess. I trusted very few people with our baby. I found myself sobbing on his first birthday only for my mil to make a joke out of it. She had all her children naturally, never induced so she had no idea what it was like nor to have hcps ignore your concerns, questions, and coerce you into a procedure that was not only medically unnecessary, but had a higher risk of complication and extra interventions. Yet, she was up in arms about hcps bungling up her sister’s care.

I was afraid to say anything to hvs because I thought they might take him away because I wasn’t emotionally all right despite coping well with him and his care. Plus, when I heard women talk about such things all I heard was people telling them “ well at least you have a healthy baby, it could be worse, etc.. “ I recall having a woman tell me I was lucky my son didn’t have autism when he was 11 months, being a bit fussy and I was worried he was disturbing others because one of her grandsons had it and didn’t do anything. My son, 4, was diagnosed with autism last month so..

It’s a ridiculous fallacy to use infertility, mc, and such against gd when neither is something anyone chooses.

Sorry I’m just still stuck on Anne Bolelyn is proof that gender disappointment existed long before scans. Going out on a limb, pretty sure she isn’t the only or best example. But ok.

*user1473878824, I didn't mean that Anne Bolelyn herself had gender disappointment - I meant that the fact that her husband had her executed for giving birth to a girl instead of a boy proves how strong his gender disappointment/gender grief was.

you’re completely misunderstanding the relationship/love between a woman/partner and a parent/child. Do you have children?

@Herewegoagain84 - yes, I have a child. In what way am I misunderstanding? If you don't like that example, how about a woman who has "daughter-in-law disappointment/daughter-in-law grief" because she'd always pictured her son marrying a more attractive/interesting/likeable woman than the one he chose? If someone posted on here that she'd overheard her mother-in-law saying that, I doubt many people would say, "She's not disappointed with you, she's just disappointed that she didn't get the daughter-in-law she wanted."

@valanice1989 That's such a straw man argument. Comparing the feelings for an in law who has joined the family as a fully fledged adult and isnt technically blood is miles apart from your own blood child that you've birthed and raised.

As everyone on here with gender preference or disappointment has said - the disappointment doesnt continue way until the child is an adult. What happens is that you may feel that way pre-birth when the child is not yet in your arms, or sometimes even after birth for a while you may struggle to let go of your feelings towards the desire for an opposite. But that doesnt mean you would then choose to have your current child removed in favour of an opposite. You do fall deeply in love with your child as they are. I've got 3 boys as I've said many times. If a God with supernatural powers offered to go back in time and change my sons into daughters for me - I'd say no. My sons are my sons and I love them as they are.

But I did grieve the fact I would never have a daughter. I grieved saying goodbye to the dream I'd held on to since I was a little girl and always assumed would happen for me. I did not grieve having my sons. I felt blessed to have carried them and delivered them safely and that they are all robust, healthy, kind, hilarious and frankly gorgeous little boys! Very blessed indeed.

It's not a case of me saying to my sons "I'm not disappointed in you, I'm just disappointed that I didnt get the daughter I wanted" because that's factually not true. I'm not disappointed in my sons at all. I am disappointed I never got a daughter but that doesnt mean I would ever consider changing out one of my sons for one.

As much as its clear you want to paint women who express sadness in their loss of a chance to raise a specific sex as awful mothers. I want you to understand there is a clear difference between what you think we feel and what we do feel. Your understand is lacking. But I understand it's hard to comprehend how someone else feels until you've been there. I didnt understand depression (was sorry to say one of those "just give yourself a shake! Stop wallowing and maybe you'd feel better!") Until I myself experience depression (way before children btw not related to gender disappointment at all).

Its very hard to understand someone else's mentality, as humans are so very complex, until you've been there yourself.

As much as its clear you want to paint women who express sadness in their loss of a chance to raise a specific sex as awful mothers

When did I say that?

Your last two posts compared women who expressed gender disappointment as the same as a husband telling his wife that he was disappointed he hadn't married his ex, and the same as a mother in law telling her daughter in law that she was "grieving" that her son hadn't married someone else.

Both of these examples as a stand alone are examples of abhorrent people. As you said yourself - people would be telling the wife of that husband to "LTB" and people would of course be up in arms towards such an intolerable mother in law. Specifically the husband example you gave was in direct response to a woman trying to explain her gender disappointment:

"The thing is though, hoping for a child of one sex doesn’t mean you’ll be disappointed with the child if they’re not the sex you hoped for."

I don't think that's true. Imagine if your husband told you that he wished he'd married his ex instead of you, and then added that that didn't mean he was disappointed with you....etc

By the flavour of your responses alone - its clear you lump women who have expressed gender disappointment into the same group as callous men who treat their wives poorly and spiteful mother in laws. Why even come up with those examples otherwise?

And that's why I wrote my post to better illuminate that you are misunderstanding gender disappointment entirely - likely because you've never experienced it yourself. It's ok to initially struggle to understand. Like I said - I think we all struggle to understand the more complex emotions other humans go through especially if its something we've never felt ourselves. I've been guilty of it. I'm just saying your responses indicate you're guilty of it too. Youd never have made those comparisons otherwise.

But @Vehilve, if a mother with gender disappointment deserves sympathy, what right do you have to call someone with "wife disappointment" or "daughter-in-law disappointment" abhorrent? Maybe those will one day be considered real conditions as well.

@valanice1989 lol ok. If you want to descend into sillyness because you cant explain away the fact what I detected (which is your inherent disapproval of gender disappointment) was truth- then theres no point trying to talk further with you. Your response just now only confirms that you dont think women who have expressed gender disappointment are worthy of sympathy or understanding- no more anyways than your lurid 'comparative' examples of husbands insulting their wives and mother in laws rejecting their daughter in laws. Any person with half a brain can see neither of the examples of horrible human behaviour that you gave are anything like a mothers emotions on letting go of her dream of having a daughter when she knows she will soon be welcoming a son and feeling some natural sadness for the reality that she will now never have a daughter that comes along with that.

The fact you feel that way tells me that you started this entire post not out of genuine curiosity on gender disappointment - which is what I thought it was hence why I gave you an earnest and vulnerable response. Instead its clear now the whole point of your original post was to bring out people who have experienced this in real life and then goad them. Its ironic you set out to make us look like awful people but instead you've now revealed yourself as an awful person.

I get that you cant understand it as you'd never experienced it. But be human and have some understanding or even just willingness to be considerate to people who have experienced it.

@Vehilve, I'm not an awful person for saying that people with "wife disappointment" and "daughter-in-law disappointment" are just as in need of compassion as people with gender disappointment. What right do you have to call them "abhorrent" and "horrible"? A woman may dream of having a certain type of daughter-in-law and then have to grieve for that dream when she finds she doesn't get on with the woman her son has decided to marry. A man may have to settle for a woman who wasn't his first choice as a wife, and then grieve for the ex he truly wanted to marry. Why are those feelings any less valid than gender disappointment?

@Valanice1989 Ok. It's not the same and you know it. But by all means continue to clutch at straws and play dumb to avoid giving affirming your obvious real agenda here. I'm quitting your thread now. I'm not going to give anything further to a thread set up to snare in and then essentially mock and attack people who have been open about their real life personal struggles. You should be ashamed for engineering such a thing in the first place OP. First class GF. Goodbye.

You should be ashamed for engineering such a thing in the first place OP. First class GF. Goodbye.

Absolutely. It's vile.

Mum of 2 boys here. Not going to lie I found out with both. Wanted boy first was disappointed to find out ds2 was a boy but my partner wanted to know and was his first child so we found out. I was gloomy for a few days but came round. After a difficult last 2 months of pregnancy I was glad we did find out as I think had I not already accepted having a boy along with the other issues I may have struggled to bond with him at first. If you find out before you have time to accept it.

This thread has gone totally weird. Why does every mumsnet thread end in an argument it very strange.