to think if you're worried about gender disappointment, it's best not to find out the baby's sex until the birth?

[Valanice1989]

On various parenting forums, I quite frequently see threads from women who are "devastated" to learn their baby's sex at the anomaly scan (boys seem to be the main source of disappointment). In almost all of these threads, at least one person says, "Don't worry, once your baby is born, you'll love them so much that you wouldn't swap them for the world."

If this is true, surely gender disappointment can be skipped altogether simply by not asking to learn the sex at the scan in the first place? I'm not saying it'll work in every case: Anne Bolelyn is proof that gender disappointment existed long before scans. Similarly, I doubt the men who insist that their wives have abortions because their culture views girls as inferior would be capable of loving a daughter under any circumstances. But barring strict cultural beliefs or severe mental illness, surely most people won't be disappointed in the baby once it's actually here?

Gender disappointment is so real and so hard to explain to those that don’t understand! I’m sure many people have 3rd or 4th children to try get the opposite gender but never admit it. I definitely still grieve for the daughter relationship I will never have, the pain is not as severe as it was but it will always be there. This has nothing to do with my sons who are absolutely loved and adored and I would never change them for a girl. I also lost babies and was extremely grateful I could get pregnant and have a healthy baby.

Sending

But Courtney555 your posts have been quite unnecessarily aggressive. I'm sorry for what you've been through but itwasalovelydreamwhileitlasted has been through something you clearly can't comprehend in not being able to successfully conceive and likewise she can't comprehend your experiences.

Actually, no they haven't. I specifically said, I don't know what it's like to not be able to have children so I don't speak on those people's behalves. So quite the opposite to what you say.

Whereas myself and other posters are happily called immature and ungrateful, and even that our illness doesn't exist by such people because, well, no matter how traumatic, how debilitating the circumstance, a child was born, and they think they have the right to say that because of their own experience.

You're very right. They don't understand. And you won't see anyone who's been at the hands of their attack on this thread responding by belittling their difficulty conceiving.

Like I said. Double standards.

@Vehivle it's like people telling boys and girls are the same. All children are there own personalities yes, but whether it's part conditioning ontop of genetics girls are different to boys. I am different to my brother. I probably would of liked a sister but I don't have one.

Certainly when I drop my DS to preschool the girls are all grouped together and the boys are in there own clusters. The girls are often doing crafts or creative stuff and the boys are most likely playing cars. It doesn't mean my DS never does crafts and the girls never touch a toy car. But I personally think it's absolutely fine to want that difference in your children. You get what you are given, although I believe in certain parts of the US you can choose the sex in IVF.

Not rtft but I agree with the op, I really wanted a girl and knew I might be disappointed at the 20 week scan so choose not to find out. My rationale being that I wouldn’t be disappointed when the baby actually arrived.

Sorry I’m just still stuck on Anne Bolelyn is proof that gender disappointment existed long before scans. Going out on a limb, pretty sure she isn’t the only or best example. But ok.

I had two kids before finding out the sex during pregnancy was a thing, and one later when an amniocentesis meant we could find out at 20 weeks. While it was good in a way to know what child 3 was for the older two, I thought it much better going through birth knowing you'd find out at the end of the work and it would be good either way, and you'd then choose a name. I do find it weird that women are going into later pregnancy and labour with a fixed sex and name. It's almost having a preconceived idea and the child has to fit it. We didn't name for weeks until we had a better idea of personality. Also as others have said you're not doing all the gender stereotyping stuff - neutral babygrows, pram, etc.

Like Witchend I have a child with a missing limb. Not detected on scan so the biggest shock of my life on the day she was born.
There are pros and cons to knowing. I’d have rather known.
I remember a nice midwife who used to sit with me sometimes at night (I couldn’t sleep) who said how silly people were to get upset if they had a different sex to what they had been told. I remember thinking I could understand where they were coming from.
You’ve built up in your head what baby will be like and do and it’s suddenly taken away.
It’s like that welcome to Holland poem people tell you when you have a child with a disability.

No I disagree

I never had gender disappointment but I can imagine. And I imagine it would involve fretting and worrying and fantasising. I think best put an end to that anguish early and find out the truth sooner rather than later.

And not everyone experiences that instant bonding with their newborn either.

I was delivering babies at a time when nobody knew the sex before the birth. Believe me, " not knowing " doesn't prevent gender disappointment. I've seen women burst into tears and refuse to touch the baby when the sex was revealed. So no, I think your op is wrong .

I have 2 boys, different dads. When I was expecting Ds2, the amount of people that said ‘oooo I’m sorry it’s another boy, will you try again for a girl?’ Ummmmm no, I’m very happy it’s another boy thank you very much, and I did not ‘try again’ just to have a girl. All I was concerned about was my baby healthy? To be 100% honest, I don’t get along with my mum, and most of my closest friends are male, so I can imagine if I had a girl we would have a difficult relationship, so for me having boys it was my ideal. (Don’t get me wrong I would have loved a girl just the same!).

But I find it very strange that people are disappointed. I know a few families with the same sex children ranging from 4-7 in numbers, as they kept trying for the opposite sex. Imagine being child 5, 6, 7 and knowing your were a disappointment to begin with?

Isn’t a healthy child the outcome everyone should want? I can’t imagine anyone having that little tiny human placed into their arms, that they have carried and grown for roughly 9 months, and looking down and seeing disappointment? I remember looking down in amazement both times, and saying the same thing ‘wow we made him’, because I think, and still do, think it’s such an amazing thing that a women’s body can do. Bugger the gender! Look at those tiny fingers and toes, their little eye lashes, it’s amazing.

I desperately wanted a second ds. I didn't really tell people in real life because obviously the baby being healthy is the important thing. But I don't think you can help how you feel. Turns out dc2 was a girl, I found out at 20 wk scan because it helped me to get my head round the idea before baby arrived. I didn't find out sex with dc1. One thing I did notice was how everybody seemed obsessed with me having a girl when they found out I was pregnant second time. 'bet you're really hoping for a girl', 'really hope you get a girl this time's etc.

I was disappointed when I found out, and I feel awful for saying it. Because she is 4 now, is just lovely in every way and we couldn't be closer. I always wanted 3 boys though.

Gender disappointment is made so much worse by the silly comments people make,with the assumption that most people want both boys and girls. Assuming roughly equal odds each time, for every person with two children, roughly a third must have 2 girls, a third two boys and a third one of each. So are two thirds disappointed? I don't think they are.

I had two girls first, just given birth to a baby boy. So so many people assumed we were only having a third because we wanted a boy. Not at all I was completely expecting another girl, as we'd already had two, and would have equally loved having another girl (especially as the first two are both so fantastic in their own way).

The number of comments you get about 'being able to stop now you have a boy' I got sick of, as it implies that a girl would have been less wanted, less loved, which is so sad and wrong.

Gender disappointment should be renamed gender grief! It’s not really a disappointment for what u have it’s the grieving for what you don’t have and the experiences u will never be part of. There was a particular job I really really wanted and when it came for the interview I didn’t get it, it was a one off opportunity and I grieved then and still slightly do for what could have been. I’m sure others have same feelings they just don’t understand

With my third pregnancy I didn't find out what sex the baby was. We had one of each, had no preference, so it obviously didn't matter right?

Only I was so convinced the baby was a boy, when a beautiful little girl was placed on my chest it did mess with my head. I didn't struggle to bond with her, but I did have to say goodbye to the little boy I had spent time imagining. I can totally see someone with a preference for girl or boy would struggle a lot more with thst feeling.

@lookingfortreasure I agree that the experience of raising a son vs a daughter will always be different no matter their personalities. The most annoying comments I found were "well at least you'll get 3 fabulous daughter in laws someday" - yes because that's exactly the same thing isn't it? Of course not! First its assuming my sons will grow up and marry women and secondly it's not like I raise these daughters in law from birth. And they have their own mothers- why would they want me? Mother in laws seems universally disliked... I'm a womans-woman and I believe I will be a really kind and supportive mother in law but the daughter in laws original mother will naturally always come first and so I'll probably be left playing second fiddle nanny to any grandkids I have. I'll try to raise my boys to be close to ours but at the end of the day, they will (and rightly should) put their wives and families first. But I imagine this will mean we will take a backseat to the daughter in laws parents. For all 3 of our kids.

I don’t get it. I honestly don’t.

Whilst I nakedly hope for a boy for #4 I just don’t get the profundity of it for some

The most annoying comments I found were "well at least you'll get 3 fabulous daughter in laws someday"

I have never understood this comment nor how it’s supposed to be “comforting” and if people actually thought about what they were saying, it’s a bit offensive. It’s like they’re saying you won’t be happy until there is a female in your family even though it isn’t the same nor is your happiness dictated by your children finding a partner and having children. What if they don’t and/or choose not to do one or both? Does that mean you try to force them to do so to make you happy? It’s such a ridiculous comment.

I find this thread a bit sad. If you'd be disappointed by a healthy baby of either gender maybe you aren't ready to have one at all! I had 3 mcs and find it heartbreaking that people would be upset by a healthy boy or girl.

Mother in laws seems universally disliked...

My mother in law is fab. We've taken every effort to make the relationship with my parents and PILs equal as possible - for instance, they both met DS at the same time, the day after his birth.

Maybe this is one of the reasons I don't get all the angst about this, because I just don't see so many of the stereotypes people insist are universal in my own life. DH is bookish, emotional and very close to his own parents - I have never had a partner or male friend who is at all 'laddish' because I find those sort of men tedious at best, so I don't think of the 'beer, football, girls' stereotype when I imagine having an adult son because none of the men I know are like that (the men at my work aren't like that either). Similarly, I know very few 'girly girls' - my friends have varying levels of relationship with their own mothers (it certainly doesn't feel to me like a given that all women will be close to their own mothers) but no one is going for spa days or shopping trips - plenty of pub lunches, but they do that with their dads too! - and I don't know anyone who would have contemplated their mothers being present when they gave birth!

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland but can you see how thats like saying why would anyone in the western world be depressed when we have all these opportunities and most of us have a roof over our head, running clean water and a decent meal each day because theres people in third world countries that have to travel miles just for clean water?

You can't compare your situation to the next person and say because they're in a better position for whatever reason it means they should shut up. There's always someone worse off then the next person doesn't give you the right to comment on how they should feel or how grateful they should be to have a healthy baby.

It's not fair.

@lisasimpsonsbff my experiences have been the same as yours and I too did not want anyone at the birth save my partner - and then we extended the invite for both sets of parents to see our new ds at the same time. I was cautious to ensure there was no favoritism to my own parents. But I know that isnt the usual case and I've seen saddening posts here on mumsnet where people have had their mothers over but not allowed their mother in law over until they felt 'ready' (sometimes this was after a week)* or when posters have shared how they dont want to even consider spending christmas at their parents in laws house despite their mother in law asking etc. There just seems so much hostility towards mother in laws on here. It has made me a little worried about my future daughter in laws.

I know it's down to the son too insisting on his parents behalf but men tend to put their wives first (rightfully).

• and I know it's the birthing woman's prerogative who she sees after shes just given birth. I get that. But there does seem to be a lack of understanding for mother in laws (especially those with no daughters) who are excited to see their new grandchild. I just think in the manner of fairness - even when I didnt feel up for guests after my 1st baby, I still allowed my partner to take the baby to see his parents and my parents whilst I rested in a room nearby and he brought the baby back when it needed feeding. I got a rest and both sets of parents got to meet the baby at the same time. It was only for an hour or so also. After that I didnt see either set of parents for another week whilst we settled into our new routine. I dont get why this is beyond some mothers to do.

Idk. I know someone who had 3 boys and during last pregnancy was convinced she would have a girl, she wanted at least one, but scan said nope another boy, and she did cry. Came round to it in the end and loves him so much obviously. But I think she still would have had the same feeling whether she found out at the birth or the scan, at least if you are a bit disappointed after the scan then you have time to get used to it

People are really horrible here.
And really ignorant.
I had a strong preference for a child of a particular sex.
I had 4 miscarriages first, one very late.
I was desperate to have a baby, desperate for my pregnancy to be successful.
And I still had a really really strong preference.
I got my preference.
I think, had I not done so, I might have been really disappointed at the same time as being really grateful and happy I had an alive baby.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
(And I'm so not into stereotyping. I have boys and girls now. My boys wear pink of they want, my girls have never had silly bows in their hair).
I know women who have had PND because they've been disappointed by their experience of labour, by the lack of support they've received and by the disappointment over their baby's sex (as well as women with pnd just because of hormones and bad luck).
Women often feel they can't admit these things and I'd wondered why. Now I realise it's because there's a whole community of incredibly judgmental narrow-minded women who can't imagine what they've never experienced and therefore assume it's not real.

I have to say reading about staring blankly at a child and feeling they are an imposter aligns with the experiences I have of friends with PND. I don't think it is separate whether you find out before or after birth. If gender grief affects your ability to bond that is PND, isn't it?

@QueenoftheDay lol at least you're being honest about it! Fair play I say