PIL and Multiple Inheritances

[ConceputilsingApparantly]

Name changed in case outing in real life.

PIL have just received their fourth large inheritance (he was sole beneficiary to his mother and brother in recent years, MIL got 1/3 of her father's estate and now 1/3 of her brother's property worth over £1 million).

Obviously this is DH's grandparents and uncles who have passed away. He is unsure whether they left wills or whether they died intestate (PIL change the subject rather obviously when asked).

Is it unreasonable to be slightly saddened that he has been left nothing by any of his grandparents or uncles?

In all cases, the estates/share of inheritance would have been worth over £250,000. PIL are wealthy, large house with mortgage long paid off, 2 holiday homes overseas, retired early on final salary pension schemes and waste a lot of money on cars, motorhomes and holiday homes which they are constantly changing.

OP, did the grandparents and uncle live in Scotland, too?

Do you know how copies of wills can be accessed in Scotland? (It's all online via the Scottish government website.)

Do you know about Scottish inheritance law? Your DH will benefit.

Do you know about adult care costs in Scotland and how that system works? It is more generous than that in England.

I have nothing to do with them now as I think if they spoke to me rudely once more I would really tear a strip off them!

You dislike them, they dislike you. What a pity they've got the money that you want. Too bad.

I got a copy of a GP's will from the probate office years after their death and confirmed what I had remembered, that they had bequethed me certain items. I never saw these items. The generation above me were struggling at the time when the country was in recession and sold them (I found the auction catalogues). If I had known though I would still have offered to sell them for them because at the time I was young and strong and thought I would never have a problem earning. The dishonesty did hurt though. Then I got sick so you never know what life may throw at you.

The other side of my family were very kind and when my DGM died they passed it on to the grandchidren's generation which helped us gain some security. I am sad that I have not been able to earn enough to do the same one day.

@ConceputilsingApparantly I work in this area, if you want to PM me I can find out if they left wills (I can do this legally - nothing underhand)

supersimkin2 This is how it works. The executor of the will holds all the cards. The executor is one person named in the will and is the only one who can dish out of the deceased person's assets. Executor is usually one of the DC, wife, nearest relation etc - ie also usually one of the main beneficiaries.

I would strongly suspect that the deceased corrupt solicitor and one of either PIL were executors of any will. They don't like spending money unnecessarily, and they like controlling things. But since they won't answer questions, no matter how gently and casually put, when they start talking about wills and inheritances in the family, who knows?

That means the executor can decide for themselves what the will 'says'. And keep all the money.

This fraud is a serious crime. But it's especially easy as a lot of adult DC know better than anyone else in the family how much the old person was worth, given how many old people now need help with their finances. If the sums are kept quiet, and all anyone says is they were penniless, it's practically impossible to prove something's up.

how many people would call the police on their nearest and dearest? They may have spent the money by now anyway.

I couldn't bring myself to do that and I'm sure DH wouldn't either.

They are certainly spending! They also like to talk about how they are "making sure they enjoy themselves so don't expect anything from us when we die" and I really think they are not joking. FIL in particular has an attitude of expecting other people to pay for him throughout his life (very irregular employment, very early retirement, very lazy and entitled attitude). I find their behaviour really suspicious, but all I'm going to do is talk about it because its not my family and I don't want to get too closely involved in it all. I just wanted some outside opinions.

I also suspect that FIL started being more rude to me (assisted by BIL) when he realised I was getting a bit suspicious.

A lot of people seem to be telling you that you’re grabby, but yes, the whole thing sounds suspicious as hell, that your DH was so close to these people, didn’t get a single bequest from ANY of them, and four (FOUR?) separate wills have all allegedly gone missing? I believe in legal terms they would say: Pull the other one; it’s got bells on it.

But I also have to say, for what you claim was a money- and inheritance-minded family, they made extraordinarily foolish decisions. Or they put their trust in people they shouldn’t have. When you have that amount of money, you don’t fuck about with making a will. You do it, register it, copy it in triplicate, put it in multiple locations, find someone you can trust to make sure it gets carried out, and on and on, etc. There’s a reason that, according to Money.com, 70% of wealthy families lose their money in two generations and 90% lose it in three generations, and it’s because of people like your PILs (Here’s the link, OP, so you'll see you’re not alone in families doing this to each other: money.com/money/3925308/rich-families-lose-wealth/ ).

I know you’ve said in Scotland you can’t order copies of wills in any easy/direct way, but even if you could, it sounds like instead of just losing the wills, it could be that the “competing wills” that won were whichever didn’t include your DP (probably ones made before he was born or something ridiculous).

Regardless, it sounds as though the ship has sailed, and your PIL are determined not to do what DH’s grandparents and uncles may have wanted, which was to actually pass something on to the next generation. A lesson in saying EVERYTHING in a will and registering copies of it EVERYWHERE because you can’t trust a lot of people to just “do the right thing” without the law, when money is involved. For all we know, PIL promised blind that they would just pass money to DH and there was no need to make things official and “complicate” them.

If you feel confident that you can somehow prove PIL have obfuscated the true intentions of the deceased, done something legally “hinky” with the wills, and stolen inheritance from DH in the process, then get a legal consultation. Hell, if you can get a free consultation with a solicitor, I might, for closure. It’s ridiculous that this happened with four separate wills and no matter how corrupt the solicitor was, there was no paper trail that could be followed by another dedicated solicitor.

Good luck, OP. I think your PILs pulled a fast one and it sounds like your DH is still in the FOG (read up on fear-obligation-guilt, if you haven’t already). The fact that PIL can inherit that much, make it clear they have no intention of passing it on (fine, their call), but then have the brass neck to try to force money out of you both is unreal. They don’t sound like very nice people if their attitude toward money extends to other things in life, and based on your most recent comment, it sounds like it does. You’re a very wise woman for being LC with them, and hopefully, your DH will join you soon.

In Scotland, Champagne?

Get legal advice.

For what? OP’s DH has no entitlement to inherit from his GPs or uncles. And the lovely concerned DIL has even less entitlement. Well, only in her own mind.

The fact that PIL can inherit that much, make it clear they have no intention of passing it on (fine, their call)

It's different in Scotland

Autumn Crow Do you know about Scottish inheritance law? Your DH will benefit.

All in Scotland.

I don't know much about Scottish inheritance law and can't interpret the sums, but I did have a suspicion that DH should have inherited something through legal rights and has received nothing. I couldn't say whether his siblings were given money.

We are not presumably talking about large sums even given the amount of the estate (e.g. not big enough to "justify" ignoring him) which makes me think there might have been wills actually bequeathing him a share separately. Who knows? I'm just really suspicious.

@Supersimkin2 completely agree.
Having calculated the estate and distributed the assets of 3 wills in 2 yrs (only one of which I was the actual executor), I am amazed at how ‘easy’ it would be to do this.
For my own protection the very first thing I have done in all three cases was provide a copy of the will to all beneficiaries and interested parties.
In order to achieve probate with no will you have to testify that none exists under oath. From this perspective it really comes down to the integrity of the individuals concerned.

I think DH should see a solicitor for at least a quick initial appointment regarding his legal rights under Scots law. I'll probably be able to persuade him to do so, once he gets round to it in a couple of months!

The obvious thing to do would be to discuss this, gently, with his parents, but they really won't. And the partial version varies each time with the telling.

I think it's fair enough to check that other family members aren't being diddled out of money by an inappropriately administered estate. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

I don't think grand parents should leave anything directly to grand children unless a) the parents are completely feckless or b) it's a specific gift that they know the grand child would have liked to have. It is for parents to look after their children and additionally those children will 'benefit' when the parents die(presumably).

I would never expect to be left anything in anyone's will other than perhaps my own parents, its really grabby.

I am not sure I understand this 'wills have been lost', etc. Wills are public documents (except maybe royalty). As others have said, you can obtain a copy of the will from the probate office. This will tell you who was left what, and who the executors were. If there is no will, the laws of interstacy apply.

OK just read that it'sin Scotland and I don't know about different laws there on inheritance.

In Scotland the law states where an individual dies in testate the order follows:
% to surviving partner
Then or if no partner
% to survive children
Then if any estate remains
% to parents and or siblings

• Grandchildren and Nieces/Nephews are not acknowledged

This is if they die intestate.
It clearly states it is an expensive and drawn out process so if the family is financially savvy I’d be amazed if they left no will.

OP, I have experience of deaths of elderly Scots relatives, as well as experience of what some might term 'will diddling' by someone in cahoots with an executor.

I'm guessing you're English, live in England? It really is worth it (and free) to read up about the Scottish system. I've lived in both countries and they're quite different in many legal regards.

Knowledge is the key.

My brother died intestate. Money went to me and my parents. No money to my DC (Scottish farming family)

You only have to look at other posts on here to see how complex it can be to leave money to grandchildren in a will: do you leave the same amount to each grandchild, or if families (dc) have different numbers of children do you leave equivalent amount to the dc's families, so some dgc get more than others. Add in the complexities of avoiding favouritism, keeping the will up to date so that children in utero are not disadvantaged, and the impossibility of providing for yet un-conceived children, and you see why many people go for a simpler option.

Why should your dh get something just because he visited / cared for them / was nice to them..... ?? Unless he was materially disadvantaged by it then he did those things because he was a nice person, and it matched his value set. If he did those things because he expected a preferential outcome on inheritance, then his value set is crap (and I don't think that is what you are saying).

When my dparents died they left small bequeaths to dgc, the rest split equally between me and my siblings. There were times in my life when I'd struggled financially and I'd have so much appreciate a few hundred pounds at that time, rather than a few thousand now. But their decision.

As to your PILs 'spending their inheritance' good for them. Or perhaps they might need it for care in their elder years. Or were you thinking of taking them into your home? (I guess not)

@Supersimkin2 this is so true. Unfortunately greed takes over

All four of my grandparents are dead. My DM’s parents did leave money to their grandchildren. I have no idea if or what was left to my DM and her siblings as none of my business!

I did not inherit anything from my DF’s parents, and I have no idea what they left, or to whom. Again, none of my business, and actually typing this is the first time I’ve thought about it at all. I assume my DF and his siblings inherited.

I’m in Scotland, my DF’s family are farmers. In Scots law grandchildren have no right to inherit. Children do, so any benefit from the Scottish system would be felt by the OP’s DH when his own parents die.

Hopefully his parents will have enjoyed spending their own money by that time, whether on holiday homes or care homes.

OP, if the estates comprised of property/farms etc then it’s most likely the executors would have had to have obtained confirmation from the local sheriff court (a copy of the Will is submitted to the court so you’d know if there was a will or not). All records are open to the public.

Have a look here for more information and also a link to check if confirmation was sought www.scotcourts.gov.uk/taking-action/frequently-asked-questions/your-questions-on-dealing-with-a-deceased's-estate

Milvey I am not sure I understand this 'wills have been lost', etc. Wills are public documents (except maybe royalty).

The story from PIL varies but what they have said is that a number of times, there were a number of different, potentially competing wills. There were different versions of wills, later wills and wills made on deathbeds. And that some wills "disappeared". MIL fell out with her sister over her father's will and never spoke to her again. Ditto her brother. FIL has fallen out with various family members.

Basically its a history of brothers and sisters not talking to each other regarding wills and inheritances, spread out over years.