To think that ‘mum’ friends are often far more hassle than they’re worth?!

[Blargon7]

Jeez.

I’ve been dropped by my close ‘mum’ friend from the school, she’s gone from being super keen to not wanting to meet up with me. It really hurts and I don’t know why. She is however still going around with another group of mums, a couple of whom she has moaned about to me on many occasions.

Then there are the other women there. Some I say hi and have a quick chat to but sadly we don’t have much in common and don’t really click, it’s just polite how are your kids doing chat which is fine.

Then there are a lot of mums who have cliques and seem to bully and slag off a bunch of other mums to the point where some mums have stopped coming into the playground and have been reduced to tears.

I just can’t be arsed with this fucking bullshit anymore! Life is too bloody short.

What’s your experience?!

I find some of the attitudes here a bit hypocritical or maybe just shortsighted. The whole clique vs group of friends thing- people who enjoy spending time together are not by definition a clique. They are just friends. If they're being actively mean, condescending, won't acknowledge other people or are horrible to them then yes, clique can apply but I really think those are few and far between. Most are just pleased to have found others they like spending time with.

Similarly a lot people are saying they don't bother because they don't like the people/think they are cliquey/don't have anything in common - fine, but then you can't really complain when they don't bother with you either.

My own experience has generally been good. I am pretty outgoing and will chat to anyone, have a long walk home from school and work from home so am a prime candidate for school mum chats. But then I am also someone who suggested picnics and nights out in the early days when I knew no one, and invited everyone, and over the years it's turned into a lovely group of genuine friends. As in all groups there are some who get on better than others, but mostly it is a lovely, supportive and fun group of friends. Some work full time, some part time, some from home and some not at all, but we make the effort to see each other. We don't really even see each other at school much any more now the kids who were in the same year have gone to secondary, but chat online, get together a lot for lunch, pub, nights out dancing, nights with the kids and with the husbands too. Some of us have been away together too which has been lovely. The kids often say it's more like having extra cousins.

Sorry this is so long. Tl,dr: my experience has been good. If you want school mum friends it can be a positive experience and they are out there. If you don't, what's the problem?

I get you. My DCs are now at secondary school and I have just four mum friends from primary school that I still see. One I knew before though and one I've got to know through another activity.

The stuff that went on with the cliquey sets was mind boggling - people were falling out over things relevant to 12 year olds, it was really unpleasant, and these were quite educated women!!

I think if you throw 300 or so women into a situation where they have to see each other twice a day for six or so years it doesn't end well IME!

Yep, cliquey bitches in my experience. I’m second time around with the playground bullshit. Drives me potty so my OH does all the pick ups/drop offs. He generally can’t get out of there fast enough.

So literally every mum at your kids school is a bitch - but not you. Do you not see the irony in your bitchy words. What a bitter view of the world.

@Vulpine

So literally every mum at your kids school is a bitch - but not you. Do you not see the irony in your bitchy words. What a bitter view of the world.

It's also sad when you can't read or interpret posts properly. And then decide to throw the word literally just to make a false point.

It's also sad when you can't read or interpret posts properly. And then decide to throw the word literally just to make a false point.

YY! This is so infuriating. Both the lack of RTFT by people who are desperate to make the same incorrect point over and over again. Literally the same point over and over .

Yes posters do seem to make the same point over and over again - that ALL school mums are cliquey bitches

Generally find mum friends extremely annoying - way too much talking about what their children are doing (our babies are all doing the same thing ffs) which ends up feeling like dick swinging and showing off.

Even at a baby-free meal it’s all people want to talk about it’s really fucking annoying. Not looking forward to the school gate stuff, having found the NCT thing so irritating.

I'm finding it a bit patronising the way some people are arguing that because they had a great experience with mum friends then everyone else who didn't must be automatically lying. WTF? Thats like me saying well I had a great time when I was at school (eg was never bullied etc) so everyone else must have also had a great time those who say they didnt must be lying or exaggerating. The difference between a clique and normal friendships is that a clique won't allow you to join - that's the very definition of a clique and that is the difference. My friends and I would never purposely exclude someone who looked like they could use a friend because we we're not the "popular ones" at school so we recognise how hard it can be and how much it takes out of you to fit in. For all those people saying they had a great time with playground mums- thats great! Good for you. But please dont deny the many negative experiences others have had.

There have been many sociological studies done on social groups and social interactions and its not quite as simple, or easy as you might think. Many times you have to look right to fit in, people in the same social class tend to stick together, people with similar backgrounds are also drawn to each other in stranger experiments. Social class, ethnicity, and disabilities can all contribute to certain people being excluded from social groups. So what I'm saying is- if lots of people are saying they felt left out and excluded (as they are in this thread)- believe them. If someone told you they were bullied at school, you wouldn't say "oh, it was probably all in your mind!- i was never bullied!" or "well, you were there too- what did you do to bring this upon yourself?" Its the same principle.

The NCT are insufferable....tbh i rekon that the fewer friends the better! But i am a miserable old git!

I'm finding it a bit patronising the way some people are arguing that because they had a great experience with mum friends then everyone else who didn't must be automatically lying. WTF?

Have you never read mumsnet?

Anecdote outweighs population studies every time.

You can have the largest, most comprehensive double blind controlled study that shows do x and y consequence is likely and half a dozen mumsnetters will pop up to say well I did x and y didn’t happen to me...

On everything. To the point I have considered a caveat on all my posts about anecdotes not being data.

Have you never read mumsnet?
I'm beginning to see this! lol its the "my experience is universal" phenomenon!

I think the anecdotes are just trying to show that it's not all bad, to try and combat this idea that it's not worth bothering with because all school mums are boring/cliquey/bitchy. Might be encouraging for people who are hoping to make some genuine friends.

Men can be bitches too - just go on a football forum.

I don't think it's necessarily about thinking all other women are bitchy but I think generally women are more emotionally intelligent than men and analyse people and social interactions far more. Therefore a wrong look, tone of voice, throwaway phrase can basically mean social death that you can never recover from. Then you get the group mentality coming into play and the fact that most people prefer to stick to their own kind... therefore if there is no one similar to you, you are out in the cold.

I think the anecdotes are just trying to show that it's not all bad, to try and combat this idea that it's not worth bothering with because all school mums are boring/cliquey/bitchy. Might be encouraging for people who are hoping to make some genuine friends

For sure, and that is a good point. It can be a good place to make decent friends.

I'm just bit uncomfortable with the blaming, minimising, and finger pointing when someone says they had a negative experience.

And sometimes one person can make all the difference. At my ds's previous school, there was one really lovely popular mum...at a kids party we were all sitting together and one mum was sat by herself. Lovely popular mum shouted over "don't sit by yourself, come over here". Ice broken thanks to her and no one left by themselves feeling awkward. In my dds class, the queen bee popular mum is unpleasant so in that situation, there would have been dirty looks given to the mum by herself and sly digs. The group would then feed off that energy and an unpleasant atmosphere would prevail.

I had some amazing friends and some great times as families when my kids were at school.

But now the kids have grown up, we’ve outgrown each other too. It’s sad because we shared so much (including many holidays together), but when my personal life got tricky (bereavement and chronic illness), they all disappeared.

The thing that I find annoying is blanket “all school mums are bitches” it’s misogynistic. Some people in groups can be vile whether it’s women at the school gate or men in the workplace. Frankly I have seen far worse from the latter and pretty much every workplace is hotbed of bitchiness in some quarters. I sometimes do locum work and arrive thinking how “nice” everyone is but after a few weeks it all comes out....

Thing is most people are absolute cowards and are petrified of being ostracised therefore will go along with any unpleasant, excluding behaviour.

Exactly. Dd age 10 had a harsh lesson in this the other day she always sticks up for her friends but when the group turned on her her supposed best friend gave a what can you do shrug and ran off too. We had the “you can’t actually rely on anyone” conversation

I made a few 'Mum friends' who are still my friends nearly 20 years on.
I met them at DC's Nursery not school. We were all in the same position, working and juggling home and work. We helped each other a lot.
I didn't make school Mum friends though - I was very rarely at the school gates. When I was I just got the overwhelming feeling that many were living their life entirely through their DC.
Several went into school as parent helpers, some got jobs at the school as dinner supervisors or TAs, many hung around for up to an hour after/before school chatting... went to every assembly etc.
All fine but we didn't have anything in common. I wasn't free to go to school with my DC and then spend the afternoon baking or at the stables. More's the pity.

I also think there’s an expectation gap. Why should these randoms become your friends they don’t owe you anything. If you happen to click that’s great but if they not your tribe that’s no ones fault.

beautifulstranger101

You're bang on.

I honestly wonder how otherwise seemingly intelligent people so bullishly miss the points being made by people on here.

I mean, I don't know if I'm wasting my 'breath'/typing by reiterating this again.

It is NOT the INDIVIDUAL mums / parents who are bitchy or cliquey. It is the group dynamic, which, it shouldn't even need to be said, can make otherwise kind people behave completely differently. Have you ever read Lord of the Flies ffs?? It's the pack mentality.
It's common among all sorts of groups of people. People commit terrible crimes they would otherwise never contemplate because they have the support of a 'pack'. It's ignorant ot deliberately obtuse to say otherwise. Added to that, there is the fact that my children have to go to school at the same place as I'm expected, by some, to do my socialising. Those two aspects put ME off socialising with school mums, beyond a quick, friendly chat.

If you @vulpine have a lovely, friendly crew who you are close friends with at school, good for you (seriously. How nice)! But that is not for me and I, and others who feel similarly, have explained why a good few times on here.

Again, it is not that each, individual mum is a bitch on their own. I'm sure, like any group, on their own, I'm sure they are decent people.

I think this^^ is what people are mainly saying on here. And when they say "school mums tend to be X, Y or Z", they are referring to the group dynamic, plus one or two 'queen bees', not each individual mum.

Thing is most people are absolute cowards and are petrified of being ostracised therefore will go along with any unpleasant, excluding behaviour

I don’t think it’s cowardice as much as learned behaviour.

Starts as soon as children start school. Before even. Parents teach little girls that social status is everything. Girls are called little bitches from day 1 and we see exactly the same behaviour play out in schools. Queen bees, inclusion and exclusion as a way of manipulating popularity- and surprise surprise, these kids are nearly always the children of parents we’re describing here, where being popular and with the “in crowd” is critical.

We see it here. Advice on changing their kids behaviour to avoid being bullied and make them fit in. Party invites- social status reinforcing how nice/pretty/wonderful our kid is. If you aren’t popular there’s something “wrong” with you.

The kids learn these games so early. Why are we surprised they’re still playing them as adults?

I’ve always taught my kids not to play the pick me game. That anyone who attaches conditions to friendship, or is/isn’t your friend depending on various conditions isn’t a friend.

Not having loads of friends and constant invites doesn’t mean you are an awful person nobody wants around.