How shockingly ignorant Remain supporters are.

[ScreamingLadySutch]

Sorry, guys, but you are.

In the past week I have been told we must Remain because BJ is a dictator by one, and by another because it is easier to travel .

There seems to be no knowledge of our history and institutions, legal, political, sovereign and economic considerations, the history etc of Europe and what is really going on.

Labour and the trade unions were wholly against entry, and the Conservatives pushed it through by stealth and deceit. That crusty old socialist Tony Benn was prophetic on his remarks about what it meant. Now, today, that is reversed. Fascinating, really.

For a good grounding on the roots of the issue (Maastricht was going to result in Brexit it was completely inevitable), this documentary is quite useful:

"A brexiter I was speaking to the other day genuinely thought that we were leaving Europe.

"She said we should all be voting leave because we might get placed somewhere with better weather and nicer housing"

This either needs to be entered into the 'this never happened awards' of you need to realise your leg was being pulled

There seems to be no knowledge of our history and institutions, legal, political, sovereign and economic considerations, the history etc of Europe and what is really going on

I few there we haven't had a war with Europe recently, like we did frequently in the good old days. Let's reclaim Brittany for our currently lack of British Empire.

@FuckeryOmbudsman "When leavers are called thick, it barely generates a raised eyebrow.

Interesting to see a thread with a title that's the other way round (possibly the only one ever)"

and sadly for them I will run rings round them.

Because I am completely unmoved by ad hominem attacks, and they don't possess the facts they need to articulate their position.

This is what the Lisbon Treaty mans op
fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/

'Means'

Lol. I admire your modesty OP.

I agree with PPs that personal attacks on either side are unhelpful.

@Kpo58 IF you understood some economics, you would find that this is the third phase of Britain resisting German economic dominance.

You DID know, I am sure, that WW1 and WW2 was about German v British economic dominance? I am sure you knew that. (And that BRITAIN, not Germany, started both wars)

Always follow the money.

No leaver has yet been able to provide me an evidence based list of specific ways in which our country, particularly the average person, will benefit from leaving the EU. Believe me, I would love to find such a thing so I can see a glimmer of light in this clusterfuck.

With regards history, the origins in the EU were to move on from the horror of ww2. It was a progressive project from which we are now regressing. The generation who lived through the war knew this - I'm not talking about the baby boomers here,it's people in their 90s.

@NewStart571 you have to be robust! Remainers are really not used to being taken on.

Wow - Britain really is a pain in the arse of the world, always starting world wars. Are we now after world war 3, then?

@JacquesHammer

If nothing else I’m grateful the referendum ensure I knew their true colours.

Are you sure this is grammatically correct pet?

Be careful on that high horse.

they don't possess the facts they need to articulate their position.

What facts are you expecting?

Surely if you want to debate facts you don't start a thread where you label people who voted remain as ignorant, based on the comments of 2 people?

Are you sure this is grammatically correct pet?

No. But then I wasn’t accusing people of being an idiot.

HTH

I’ll enjoy the biscuit with my morning cuppa and the knowledge you’re rattled

Leavers as a whole seem determined to wholly ignore evidence and opinions from experts. There is a desperation to hark back to an imperialist past that is long gone and now only relevant socially.

When the economy tanks just remember this thread of yours claiming remainers are ignorant.

I think if the vote had gone the other way, the brexiteers would have been just as vocal as the remainers are now.
Neither side wanted to 'lose', and both sides consider the other to be shockingly ignorant.
It's a binary issue, and has split us all. Horrific.

Velveteenfruitbowl- but the main issue (for me) is purely economical and political. There are always countries with lower living standards as well as higher ones. Some of it is real, some of it is perception.
What you have to ask yourself is Who is our closet neighbour in terms of trade and the cost involved in it. Who is our biggest export market? From which countries do we import goods. We need a stable, political relationship with these countries.
Brexit already has an effect on the British economy.
This world outside the EU is not the promised land ...

@ScreamingLadySutch

Yes, always follow the money.

Like the money that Rees-Mogg, Aaron Banks and Leadsom and others have tucked away offshore that they will be fine for under new EU laws that come into force on checks notes 1st January 2020.

I wonder why they are so desperate not to have another extension.

Ignorance is defined as a lack of understanding or knowledge.
It is therefore factually inaccurate to determine remain voters as the ignorant ones.
The most significant indicator of voting behaviour was educational attainment with remain voters being far more likely to be graduates.
Age and socioeconomic status also feature but less than education.

Sadly, leave voters who are the ones most likely to lose most are the people who believed the lies and scaremongering of a Farage, Johnson and Gove. The few winners will be the very, very rich who drove and funded the campaign.

Sorry, should say fined

Didn’t you read the Paradise Papers?

@NewStart571 I 100% agree.

Sorry, guys, but you are.

So one person told you we should remain because BJ is a dictator and you thought the least ignorant display of your knowledge you could possibly muster was to think all remainers believe the same?

For future reference, ignorance is best displayed by making sweeping generalisations.

"the origins in the EU were to move on from the horror of ww2. "

you are right. But here is the problem. The Project is POLITICAL. It is a top down structure, run by bureaucrats.

Result? It is over regulated, protectionist and uncompetitive. The Euro is essentially the Deutschmark (marxist Greek Finance Minister Yannis Varoufakis). Money flows net to Germany at the expense of the southern Mediterranean countries. It is not good for the British economy. We would be (long term) much better out - leaner, more competitive, less shackled by bureaucratic regulation.

@MarmotMorning If you would like the economic argument:

always follow the money!

Nice to see the GFA, the only sticking point to getting Brexit "done" being ignored.

mymonkesymycircus - don't worry, we're just sorting out that nasty Germany again, what with it being such a threat to -Chinese- British economic dominance.