How shockingly ignorant Remain supporters are.

[ScreamingLadySutch]

Sorry, guys, but you are.

In the past week I have been told we must Remain because BJ is a dictator by one, and by another because it is easier to travel .

There seems to be no knowledge of our history and institutions, legal, political, sovereign and economic considerations, the history etc of Europe and what is really going on.

Labour and the trade unions were wholly against entry, and the Conservatives pushed it through by stealth and deceit. That crusty old socialist Tony Benn was prophetic on his remarks about what it meant. Now, today, that is reversed. Fascinating, really.

For a good grounding on the roots of the issue (Maastricht was going to result in Brexit it was completely inevitable), this documentary is quite useful:

And the herbal business that closed down thanks to red tape? EU legislation banned the sale of herbal medicines that had massive doses of vitamins in each dose. These were claimed to cure all manners of illness, but were actually causing dangerous side effects. That may be why it closed. Any herbal medicine businesses that were professional were not doing this and selling normal doses.

This gem came from a Leave EU group on Facebook. Judt putting it out there.

elprup

Yes, it was terrible to watch, but from what I have witnessed on this thread, someone will come along and accuse me of lying.
I have witnessed it in Brittany and the worst case was at Libourne market (near Bordeaux), where they also had tiny chickens crammed into cages.

americanmominbordeaux.blogspot.com/2014/06/discovering-libourne-market-connecting.html

"So I am not sure what you are trying to convince me of?
You don't need to convince me that there are some routes where there is no border. I have been on them."

So, let us get this straight, you called me a liar and have now agreed with me on the very point you accused me of lying about - amazing.
Do you know what a "hard border" actually is?

I have witnessed it in Brittany and the worst case was at Libourne market (near Bordeaux), where they also had tiny chickens crammed into cages.

It's no great secret that lots of member states did not comply with the EU ban on battery hens when it was first implemented, although the UK led the charge.

Great that we're leaving the CAP, incidentally. We can set our own animal welfare standards (I do hope we ban the export of livestock) and determine how to compensate UK farmers for their land stewardship.

Great that we're leaving the CAP, incidentally. We can set our own animal welfare standards (I do hope we ban the export of livestock) and determine how to compensate UK farmers for their land stewardship.
That won't last long when Boris accepts US food standards in order to get a trade deal. Beef cattle raised on growth hormones,. Pigs raised on ractopamine - their legs collapse but they can't fall over because they are pinned in a narrow stall.

@Northernsoulgirl45
I prefer the unicorns

Do you know what a "hard border" actually is?

It does seem that you are confusing Schengen arrangements and a customs border for goods.

Based on two people.... and all remainers are ignorant. Ok.

@andyoldlabour what is your understanding of a hard border?

"That won't last long when Boris accepts US food standards in order to get a trade deal. Beef cattle raised on growth hormones,. Pigs raised on ractopamine - their legs collapse but they can't fall over because they are pinned in a narrow stall."

The UK only imports 23% of its beef, and 70% of that comes from Ireland. Do you see Irelands beef farmers stopping this and going bankrupt?

I think there have been some very horrible comments made by both remainers and brexiteers against the other side. It really doesn't help. We are where we are. I voted remain. We lost. We are (rightly) now leaving and we need to work on ways to make that work best for everyone and help to ensure people can get on together again i agree wholeheartedly with Xenia (and i don't say that lightly )

justintimberlakesfishwife

My definition of a "hard border" is what has existed at Dover and Calais for the past couple of years.
Whe you arrive at Dover (or may Eurotunnel), you have to first go through British customs, then after a short drive, you go through French customs. The opposite happens when you are in Calais returning to England.
The ultimate examples of "hard borders" would be the US/Mexico and North/South Korea.
Europe consists mainly of porous borders, but in 2015, due to increased immigration to Europe, France, Austria and Germany set up emergency border checks, largely because of ther numbers of new migrants entering via Hungary and Slovenia.

www.euronews.com/2019/04/07/austria-extends-duration-of-border-checks-for-hungary-and-slovenia

The UK only imports 23% of its beef, and 70% of that comes from Ireland. Do you see Irelands beef farmers stopping this and going bankrupt?

This may surprise you but many people, and institutions like hospitals and schools, have to buy food on price.
The highly industrialised and intensive US food production system means they will be able to send their products here cheaper than our our farmers can produce them.

There is indeed infrastructure between Switzerland and France, plus our passports were checked there last summer although presume that was random. There are toll booth type cabins and men in uniform with guns.

The UK only imports 23% of its beef, and 70% of that comes from Ireland. Do you see Irelands beef farmers stopping this and going bankrupt?

No, I don't see Ireland's beef farmers voluntarily stopping exports to the UK and choosing to make themselves bankrupt (which is likely as the UK is the recipient of a large percentage of Irish beef exports). Instead, I see imported beef from the US undercutting that from Ireland and therefore forcing Irish farmers to go bankrupt.

"The highly industrialised and intensive US food production system means they will be able to send their products here cheaper than our our farmers can produce them."

No they won't because their beef does not comply to our standards.

www.gov.uk/guidance/cattle-health#hormonal-treatments-and-antibiotics-for-cattle

Exactly don't but I can't see many people gave a thought to Irish Farmers or increased carbon footprint imports from US will cause ehen they voted leave.

Which is it - a US trade deal never get through Congress because of the Irish border, or will we be flooded with cheap US meat post-Brexit?

Boris Johnson has pledged to not accept any animal products having lower welfare standards (obviously, his critics won't believe him).

His government has just adopted the toughest anti-trophy laws in the world, if you're familiar with his writing he references his love of wildlife often, he's dating an animal rights activist - I don't think there's much reason to believe he's going to allow the UK to step backwards in this regard.

A trade deal with the US will likely take sufficiently long to negotiate that I question whether Johnson's beliefs will be of any relevance.

We'll probably be in 'beggars can't be choosers' territory too.

A trade deal with the US will likely take sufficiently long to negotiate that I question whether Johnson's beliefs will be of any relevance.

And Trump's.

The meat market is changing pretty dramatically at this point, anyway. Beyond Meat IPO was record-breaking, there's lots of start ups growing meat in labs, public opinion is really shifting.

@andyoldlabour but surely those standards that beef must comply with at the moment are in line with EU regulations? It's a realistic concern that once we are no longer within the EU so no longer are within those regulations, moves can be made to reduce those standards? That's what people are afraid of.

Britain has always been a leader in animal welfare. Leaving the EU does not change this unless the people elect a parliament that does not care for animal welfare.

Do none of the Europhiles on this thread object to the ruinous CAP?