How shockingly ignorant Remain supporters are.

[ScreamingLadySutch]

Sorry, guys, but you are.

In the past week I have been told we must Remain because BJ is a dictator by one, and by another because it is easier to travel .

There seems to be no knowledge of our history and institutions, legal, political, sovereign and economic considerations, the history etc of Europe and what is really going on.

Labour and the trade unions were wholly against entry, and the Conservatives pushed it through by stealth and deceit. That crusty old socialist Tony Benn was prophetic on his remarks about what it meant. Now, today, that is reversed. Fascinating, really.

For a good grounding on the roots of the issue (Maastricht was going to result in Brexit it was completely inevitable), this documentary is quite useful:

@FreshFreesias

If you look into any of our industries you will find so many that have been handicapped or damaged by the EU

As opposed to the man in the street who, thanks to the EU, hasn't been handicapped or damaged by your dodgy business mates, and the artists who can actually profit from their own work in the same way as authors and musicians do.

I would have thought that people in the Republic would have been concerned about Brexit on the border and would have raised some questions to the UK about it.
Not really sure why you feel this is relevant. Is it to find an excuse to why the average voter didn't do much more research into the effects of Brexit outside the headlines? It was certainly spoken about before the referendum in both countries.

It's an interesting thought when listening to the soundbite 'death of democracy' (paraphrased) is that the GFA was agreed by referendum. Does a 'people's choice' have an expiry date?

that one statement you have shot down your whole argument, because what you witnessed between Denmark and Germany is a soft border, such as the one which we witnessed last year on a trip to Salzburg between Germany and Austria

How do you define a hard border?

Because there is definitely customs infrastructure and checks between Switzerland and the EU - although not everywhere

@andyoldlabour

Regarding the GFA and the supposition that we have to have a border between the North and South in Ireland, this is a scare story put out by the EU and Varadkar. Both Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU and do not have hard borders with the EU countries surrounding them

You would agree that there are some borders between Switzerland and the EU, and Norway and the EU. that have customs officials and customs infrastructure.

What was the debate like in Northern Ireland and in the Republic of Ireland about the border during the initial Brexit debate?

Why the fuck would there have been ‘initial Brexit debate’ in the ROI? You realise it’s a separate country, with no say or influence in brexit, right?

But in answer to your terribly put question, initially it was assumed that either the UK would stay in a CU or had a plan for the relationship. No one thought it would come to a no deal.

Why the fuck would there have been ‘initial Brexit debate’ in the ROI? You realise it’s a separate country, with no say or influence in brexit, right

I would have thought that there would have been people and politicians in the ROI who would have had concerns over the border if Brexit went ahead.

As to what influence they would have had in a debate in a foreign country, well who knows. But it does effect them massively. As can be seen now.

But it does effect them massively. As can be seen now.

Well Obviously

What should have happened was Camerons team coming to ROI to discuss matters long before the terms of the vote were even settled.

But the fucking muppets didn’t do that.

A quick Google shows some of the Brexit debate from the ROI

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-a-referendum-on-ireland-s-future-1.2476474

From Jan 2016

It makes for depressing reading, given where we are now.

Oh thank God you've come along OP with your expert incite. I'm so fed up with know nothing Nobel prize winning economists and supreme court judges.

Germfree
Nice try but... when I said you were quoting, that's what you were doing: quoting my words. Do you disagree?

You called someone that supports/supported Remain dim-witted. I don't know how the woman on the debate voted. Do you? Are you sure she supports/supported remain? All I know (because I didn't watch it) is that the woman purportedly said she wanted us to 'get on with it.'

You called many, many Brexit supports racist.

Read my words again. The combined forces of Yaxley-Lennon, Football Lads Alliance, NF, BNP, EDL does equal "many, many Brexit supporters". These are all well-known racist groups/individuals. Please note - I did not say 'the majority'. I did not say 'most'. So kindly stop twisting my words.

That last one was out of context on my part. Yes. It was, wasn't it?

The reason I know I haven't called Leavers 'thick, racists' is because I don't believe it to be true. I do, however, believe that most racists voted for Brexit and there's quite a lot of evidence to back this up. I also imagine Farage's 'Breaking Point' poster was aimed at a particular type of audience.

YABU judging an entire group of people you don't know based on 2 people you've had recent conversations with.

I'll try again @chomalungma and put it simply:

• All concerns were dismissed as scaremongering.

• Boris himself claimed ' Brexit would leave arrangements on the Irish border "absolutely unchanged".

In a country where the average referendum voter seems to have based their choice of vote on just headlines and sounds bites, I really have no idea why you seem to think it important what 'debate' occured in another country.

I really have no idea why you seem to think it important what 'debate' occured in another country

I don't think it's 'important'. I am just curious as to what debate took place within the ROI around the time of the referendum.

I don't seem to remember much debate at all about potential border issues, let alone any that were dismissed as scaremongering.

But thank you for explaining simply to me that all concerns were dismissed as scaremongering

well it was, literally:

“While irresponsible Blair and Major scaremonger in NI the truth is the political process has never been more secure. Shameful Remain tactic.” (Nigel Dodds, Democratic Unionists)

If voters had done a 'quick Google' gain information prior to the referendum it would have been there. But most people weren't interested were they?

NI was so far from their radar it didn't even enter their heads it would be involved. I think it probably still is too.

Interesring to see a thread with a title that's the other way round (possibly the only one ever) and there are warnings of 'not feeding it', language of division, stoking hate etc.

AGREED

@twofingerstoeverything

You called many, many Brexit supports racist.
Read my words again. The combined forces of Yaxley-Lennon, Football Lads Alliance, NF, BNP, EDL does equal "many, many Brexit supporters". These are all well-known racist groups/individuals.

Read mine too. I said that you said racism was the reasoning for many, many supporters for people that voted for Brexit.

Please note - I did not say 'the majority'. I did not say 'most'. So kindly stop twisting my words. I didn't say you used the words 'most' or 'majority', I said you said 'many, many Brexit supporters'. I'm not twisting your words, I'm copying and pasting them. Equally kindly, stop twisting mine.

FFS Germfree. Are you being deliberately obtuse? I suspect you are.

you said racism was the reasoning for many, many supporters for people that voted for Brexit.
Again, I repeat, my exact words:
maybe not for you, but it's absolutely about that for many, many Brexit supporters (Yaxley-Lennon, Football Lads Alliance, NF, BNP, EDL, etc etc.) It is their guiding principle.
I am quite specific that I am referring to these named groups and people like Yaxley-Lennon.

I would define 'many, many' as the tens of thousands who make up those groups. You seem to be implying 'many, many' has quite a different meaning. If you prefer, I'll say 'A significant and sizeable minority of Brexit supporters...' Is that better for you? Or are you going to deny that those groups generally support Brexit, because if you're in any doubt you can just google the word 'Brexit' plus BNP/Football Lads Alliance/EDL, etc. There's lots of video footage/news stories, etc. Or visit their facebook pages and see them in full froth. Is the knowledge that a bunch of racists support Brexit - alongside many non-racists - uncomfortable for you? Don't you think Nigel knew what he was doing with that poster?

Sorry to other posters on this thread, but Germfree seems determined to ascribe to me views that I don't hold, which has majorly fucked me off.
I'm going to bed now and then on for an intensive work shift, so will be quiet for 48 hours!
The OP will be delighted that her goadyfuckery achieved something though.

I voted LEAVE, I've no problem telling you this! The day of voting I said if it went wrong for us and we lost, I would respect that. I wouldn't be happy but I would accept the defeat graciously. Remoaners seem to have been unable to accept the outcome and have continually harped on about a second referendum. Over on Twitter my friends and I get daily abuse and the occasional threat or the wish we were dead. Not all leavers are angels but I do believe we are not as confrontational or aggressive.

Shockingly ignorant and proud here. The only thing consoling me is leavers are going to suffer just as much as remainers are. I wonder what the M&S Christmas food catalogue will look like next year? 3 rodent roast?

I stumbled across this little gem on Facebook today and just had to share
😂😂

Sorry to other posters on this thread, but Germfree seems determined to ascribe to me views that I don't hold, which has majorly fucked me off.

Well you're probably feeling fucked off because I am copying and pasting your own words back to you and you don't like to read them back against your statement of: maybe not for you, but it's absolutely about that [racism] for many, many Brexit supporters. If you didn't/don't mean it, then fine, but you wrote it and posted it. I didn't ascribe anything to you. I copied and pasted what you wrote.

You seem to be implying 'many, many' has quite a different meaning. If you prefer, I'll say 'A significant and sizeable minority of Brexit supporters...' Is that better for you? It's not about being better or worse, but "For the many, not the few" is a more bold statement than "For a significant and sizeable minority, not a few", so your retraction is probably more accurate. Not better, just more accurate.

Or are you going to deny that those groups generally support Brexit, because if you're in any doubt you can just google the word 'Brexit' plus BNP/Football Lads Alliance/EDL, etc No, I'm not going to, nor ever did deny this.

Is the knowledge that a bunch of racists support Brexit - alongside many non-racists - uncomfortable for you? Don't you think Nigel knew what he was doing with that poster? Considering you asked me to stop kindly twisting your words, you are making up a whole lot of stuff and asking me about things that I didn't even say. Goodnight.

Ok @Hally2020 I'll bite. What's going to be better once we leave the EU, and what do you think we need to do to sort out the Irish border issue?

I have been to fish markets in France and Italy, where there are live fish flapping away in agony in the midday sun

@andyoldlabour that’s terrible!

I have managed a small company employing up to 15 staff. The idea that EU means running businesses of this size is unfeasible simply is not true. I think the only EU legislation that created extra paperwork for us was written risk assessments.
I am not defending anything about the EU. But I do think there is a lot of hyperbole on this thread.