To think most the UK now wants to remain in the EU

[Cinammoncake]

Wales seems to be saying they'd rather be in the EU. Scotland voted remain, as did Northern Ireland, Liverpool, Manchester, London.

Polls recently have showed more for remain than leave now.

Every poll for the last year bar one has shown a majority for remain. I voted remain but would have sucked up a Norway style deal to take us out of the EU but at least keep us in the single market and customs union. That was the scenario Farage talked about over and over - that’s what we were sold. Nowhere was a hard Brexit mentioned. Nowhere. We were never, ever, voting for a hard Brexit, and if that had have been the Leave position in the referendum nobody in their right mind would have voted for it. A hard Brexit is insane

England should leave the U.K. The rest of us can be the U.K. and stay in the EU. Hard borders at the Welsh & Scottish borders.

A hard Brexit is insane

And yet remainer MPs voted against a "middle ground" Brexit that would have given us one foot in, one foot out, such as the Norway deal. Remainer MPs have basically sabotaged everything put to them, which became a toxic mix when Labour also voted tactically to try to damage the Tories rather than what is best for the country. The entire load of muppets need to lose their seats and some new MPs voted in. Bring on the GE, can't some soon enough.

nd yet remainer MPs voted against a "middle ground" Brexit that would have given us one foot in, one foot out, such as the Norway deal. Remainer MPs have basically sabotaged everything put to them, which became a toxic mix when Labour also voted tactically to try to damage the Tories rather than what is best for the country. The entire load of muppets need to lose their seats and some new MPs voted in

I will give you that. I was surprised that not one of the alternatives got a majority in Parliament...except for No Deal - when Parliament initially took control of the order paper.

I wonder if things would be different now if we had the same debate on alternatives to No Deal?

Over half the electorate aren't just going to shrug their shoulders and carry on as if it never happened.

I think you mean just over a third of the electorate.

I seem to recall a few polls showing remain leading over leave in the polls

But there is if there is another referendum there isn’t going to be one in the foreseeable future

What we are also seeing is the Tory party quite considerably ahead given Boris’s first few challenging months.

Labour are still sitting on the fence (they are in a difficult position) and not gaining

LibDems not gaining that much support

Brexit Party have gained huge support given how well they did which the Tory party will go for

Unless always Tory voters vote labour and then there may be a chance if there being a second referendum remain being ahead is irrelevant- also labour is likely to lose voters to the Brexit party

I disagree enthusiasmisdisturbed I think a lot of Tory voters will switch to LibDems, as will a lot of more centrist labour voters or ones who don't want JC. They're doing well in the polls and are ahead of Labour now, so they could become the official opposition.

The Tories are trying to scoop up the Brexit votes, but once it has/hasnt happened those votes may revert to Labour in the traditional Labour seats (and especially if there's a hard Brexit imo) and those moderates who've now left the Tories may not go back, so the Tories will really have a problem on their hands then. Especially once JC goes.

Polls are no longer reliable sadly. Agreed that they should have either made the original referendum mandatory/created some kind of mechanism for approving a deal or something. I think the conservatives were expecting it to go in the direction of the Scottish referendum. No and done for thirty odd years.

Sadly the only people who I know that have changed their mind voted to remain

Everyone who “matters” would vote remain, obviously and that’s the important thing.

Tory voters won’t switch to lib dems out of fear of Corbyn. Those who vote because they are actually conservative by nature won’t want the Lib Dem’s no matter what. Those who vote for financial reasons/out of principle (wanting a smaller state, less taxes etc) also have no reason to vote for the Lib Dem’s. I think their major support will be from moderate habitual labour voters who have been pushed out.

I personally know a reasonably large number of Tory voters who are now voting Lib Dem including my DH.

I haven't changed my mind

if there was another referendum I'm certain the Leave vote would be a clear majority and more like 60/40

I hope we remain. The voice of leave is a voice of isolation, an angry voice lashing out at anyone percieved as having more and a voice of the privileged disaster capitalist.

if there was another referendum I'm certain the Leave vote would be a clear majority

The thing is - I wonder what would happen if people were given a choice between No Deal, a Deal or Remain...

With a preferential vote system

A Leave / Remain referendum is no good - I think it needs to involve something of the options out there.

A Leave / Remain referendum is no good - I think it needs to involve something of the options out there.

I agree. It needs to be the final say on an agreed deal (or 'no deal') v-s remain. If there were a larger majority, even for leave, then I think that could only be a good thing tbh. It feels tragic that something so momentous could come about by such a slim majority. I think the only reasonable way is to see what the public actually wants now

I agree with pp in that I know a number of Tory voters who have now switched to LibDems. I think there are/will be a lot. Many are horrified by the right wing extremism and moving away from the party being 'sensible' and well, conservative really.

Idk cos I know nobody who wants to leave, or who ever did. Bristol was rock solid remain and has stuck there.
However, it does seem likely that some people realised they'd been lied to about Leave after these lies were repeatedly proven by the press and even Netflix. That the referendum was judged unlawful might sway some former leavers to a remain view.

But LibDems won’t win a majority or anywhere near close to one they could form a coalition with Labour but Labour would have to become a Remain party they won’t they have too many grassroots voters to lose

I will vote for them and I know other labour voters will haven’t met any Tories that will myself

Its looking good for the Tory party to win comfortably if Labour were to become a Remain party would probably do better but they risk losing a lot of voters who voted leave

I think out of all the parties the one that will do well is the Brexit party its win win for them at present it’s a new party so nothing is to compare voting history with (unless you compare to UKIP)

The thing is - I wonder what would happen if people were given a choice between No Deal, a Deal or Remain well remain would win because you’ve split the leave vote, purposely! How about leave/ remain on Cameron’s deal/ full integration (euro etc) ...
Fact is the country is as split as it has always been, yes people will throw up examples “well every leave/ remain voter I’ve ever known has changed their mind” 🙄
Tories will continue to win, given the economic uncertainty with Brexit who the hell would trust JC to take the helm

I voted remain but would have sucked up a Norway style deal to take us out of the EU but at least keep us in the single market and customs union.That was the scenario Farage talked about over and over - that’s what we were sold. Nowhere was a hard Brexit mentioned. Nowhere.

You are remembering a false narrative concerning Nigel Farage - or at least remainer activists have sold you a false narrative. It is obvious to me that his comments about Norway have been edited by the remain camp or taken out of context.

Some of the comments come from an interview with Andrew Marr in November 2015. However if you watch the recording, Farage makes it perfectly clear that he wants a "simple free trade deal" with the EU outside of the customs union and single market;

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p036tf3g

Again, the Guardian reported his joint interview with Anna Soubry in February 2016;

"The outspoken business minister issued a series of challenges to the Ukip leader after he said he would like Britain to spurn the chance of remaining in the single market if voters decide to leave the EU in the June referendum."

"Farage is wary of negotiating access to the single market from outside the EU along the lines of the arrangement negotiated by Norway. Oslo enjoys tariff-free trade with the EU even though it is not a member. But it has to pay a subscription to the EU and is obliged to abide by its rules on free movement."

"In a joint interview on Channel 4 News with Soubry on Monday night, Farage said he would not want to be a member of the single market because he believed the UK should be a fully independent country."

"This suggests he favours the so-called “WTO option” in which Britain would arrange a free trade agreement with the EU."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/24/nigel-farage-accused-cover-up-consequences-eu-exit-anna-soubry

The only way to solve this is partition. Brexitland with its instant coffee, Greggs pasties and George by Asda suits. Remainland with its civet coffee, kobe beef burgers and Paul Smith suits.

Forced death marches between the two

Voting on multiple solutions is quite simple. The process is called a "single transferable vote".

the will of the people

The will of about 25% of the people. Three-quarters of Brits didn't vote Leave.

David Cameron's interview with Andrew Marr 12th June 2016;

"I’ll pull UK out of the single market after Brexit"

"The prime minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr show that it would be impossible to copy the Norwegian model by remaining inside the trading bloc despite being outside the EU because that would mean accepting freedom of movement and trade rules made in Brussels."

"He said the Brexit campaign had made it clear to voters that voting to leave also meant pulling out of the single market."

www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-bbc-andrew-marr-ill-pull-uk-out-of-the-single-market-after-brexit-eu-referendum-vote-june-23-consequences-news/

Illuminating 'forecast' from the Guardian May 2016;

"the UK parliament may assert itself and demand a closer relationship with the EU than the one envisaged by Brexiters."

"MPs will start to use the Commons to rein in Gove and Johnson.If no trade deal is struck they will become increasingly worried as the UK will have no choice but to trade with the rest of Europe under World Trade Organisation rules."

"The House of Commons foreign affairs committee recently spelled out the implication of this: “If no deal could be concluded within the two-year notice period, the UK would move to standard WTO relationship terms..."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/31/what-happens-next-if-britain-votes-to-leave-the-eu