circumcision ... to be conflicted

[Forallyouknow]

Come from a culture where you have a boy = you get it done. Never paid much attention to it until - predictably - had a boy. Had a traumatic birth where baby nearly didn’t make it- he is well now. Literally as soon as he was home I’ve been pestered from every relative / acquaintance when we are having it done- they want a party where they give money to the child. I can’t bear to put him through intentional pain but it seems it’s a case of when rather than if... I don’t know anyone from the same culture who wouldn’t do it ( even the young ones) whilst I don’t mind going against the grain there’s a part of me that thinks we should- I don’t know why other than it’s just assumed you do it. Feel very conflicted over the whole thing. Unfortunately because it is normally celebrated with a big party everyone knows whether you have had it done or not so my plan to just hope no one notices whilst I decide hasn’t worked. Guess more wondering what others think of it than aibu...

When we had our son I didn't really have an opinion either way but my husband had a very strong opinion so I was happy to defer to him on that. We didn't get our son circumcised.

Don’t mutilate your child just because it’s the done thing and everyone expects you to. That’s a cop out and your DS deserves more than that. Make a stand, tell those who ask that you will not be putting your child through an unnecessary painful procedure and that’s that.

This statement is not an intervention in the debate but a clarification on American attitudes towards circumcision:

The circumcision rate in America hovers around 80%. In white men, it's routinely been over 90%.

It's dropping, but in many cases that's due to a lack of available healthcare rather than changed attitudes (I would guess the former is prevalent in poorer areas and the latter in wealthier).

This is in part because the best practices of many pediatricians in America include circumcision. The American Academy of Pediatrics largely backs circumcision, at least according to its newest report.

News stories like the one below confirm much popular support for circumcision (again, I am not bringing this news story out as fact, but rather just trying to explain why it's so common in America). So, for instance, the public are told that "over their lifetime, half of all uncircumcised males will contract a medical condition related to their foreskin" and that circumcision reduces risks of UTIs, HIV, HPV, and herpes.

The study broadcast by the news includes the following quote: "Infant circumcision should be regarded as equivalent to childhood vaccination," said Brian Morris, coauthor of the new report and professor emeritus in the School of Medical Sciences at the University of Sydney, in a press release. "As such, it would be unethical not to routinely offer parents circumcision for their baby boy. Delay puts the child's health at risk and will usually mean it will never happen."

In other words, parents aren't doing this merely to be cultural--they're sometimes also doing it because they think it will protect the health of their babies.

(Finally, once again, I'm not claiming this, nor am I trying to stir up a medical debate when I am not, in fact, a doctor. I am merely trying to explain one of the reasons that gentile Americans circumcise. Not saying it's a good or right one, but it's part of the context.)

www.cbsnews.com/news/circumcision-rates-declining-health-risks-rising-study-says/

The study broadcast by the news includes the following quote: "Infant circumcision should be regarded as equivalent to childhood vaccination," said Brian Morris, coauthor of the new report and professor emeritus in the School of Medical Sciences at the University of Sydney, in a press release. "As such, it would be unethical not to routinely offer parents circumcision for their baby boy. Delay puts the child's health at risk and will usually mean it will never happen."

This person is an outlier though and has been ignored by medical practitioners in Australia. The Australian and NZ paediatric position statement is that any medical benefits do not outweigh the complications/adverse effects and they do not advocate for routine male circumcision.

One loud, dissenting voice hasn’t made an iota of difference.

Bearing in mind as well that the UTI benefit is grossly overstated. You need to circumcise 111 baby boys to prevent a single UTI, if renal anatomist is normal. And UTIs are more common in girls anyway, we don’t lop their labia off.

"Oh yes, we chopped that bit off you when you were too young to understand or consent because all our thought we should. But if all your mates want you to smoke, drink or take drugs, just remember - don't give into peer pressure!"

Brilliant!

Don't do it, OP. Be strong!

Its genital mutilation disguised as culture. It should only be allowed for medical reasons.

I'm a fairly practicing Jew and I'm not doing it. It's genital mutilation and I don't care if my ancestors did it or not. I have to hide this to my congregation or risk being alienated. it shouldn't be but so it goes.

Dh (and his brothers apparently) were circumcised. When we had ds (now 2) we were asked when he was being “done”. Apparently it’s better that way.

I’ve told dh to find out exactly why he was and if it’s for a significant hereditary condition I’ll consider it. So far nothing. Fil asked and I asked him why it was such a big deal. He’s not Jewish or religious in any way so it’s not for these reasons. Fil won’t tell me why. Just that we need to and I’m a bad mother if I don’t. 🙄

nolongersurprised

Sure, absolutelyagain, I'm not trying to start a debate. But these are the news stories here (CBS is a mainstream outlet), and the AAP says in balance they recommend, or at least are happy with, circumcision. I'm just trying to explain that it's more than a cultural norm in Americain many places it's also a medical norm.

I'm just trying to explain that it's more than a cultural norm in America--in many places it's also a medical norm.

Which places other than America is it a “medical norm”?

Oh, I meant many places in America. That was unclear. It should have read: I'm just trying to explain that it's more than a cultural norm in America--in many areas of America it's also a medical norm.

(There are areas where it's more and less common within the country.)

Please don’t mutilate your child, for any reason. Your job is to protect your children, not mutilate and deform their bodies.

It should be illegal for non medical reasons. It’s a disgusting and barbaric concept. Stay strong, and ignore the pressure.

Just out of interest, would you remove your daughter’s clitoris? It’s such a disgusting and horrific question to need to ask. Why would you be talking about doing something like this to your son?

In a baby/young child the foreskin is attached to the penis, it doesn’t retract. Circumcising a young child is the same as skinning one of their fingers. Not only is it causing pain and permanently mutilating a part of his body, there is also the risk of infection, loss of the head of the penis, permanent pain as an adult and the need for further surgery.

On a sexual note, a natural penis is definitely more sensitive than a circumcised one, a natural penis also doesn’t require lube for wanking and doesn’t require tonnes of lube for penetrative sex. It’s also easier to give a bj to a natural one compared to a cut penis.

FGM is rightly banned, in part due to pain, risk of infection and a lack of sexual function (I’m aware of birth risks etc). Circumcision also causes pain, has a high risk of infection and causes a lack of sexual function.

If a parent wouldn’t advocate FGM on their daughter (or themself) then they shouldn’t be advocating MGM.

The only people who should be circumcised are genuine medical cases and adults who choose to have it done. Ideally elective circumcision should be banned for adult men as FGM is for adult women.

Please don’t do it. It’s barbaric to mutilate a child’s body. Both my sons were born in the US and I was surprised that circumcision was considered the norm. I informed my (American) DH that we would not be having our baby circumcised and he was in total agreement. They are both adults now and have healthy sex lives - American women have certainly not found them “disgusting” as a PP stated.

It’s really hard . Even my Uber liberal friend has his boys done . It’s one area where sensible people and reason is overwhelmed by cultural pressure

I also don’t Think MN will help as there is a very binary view on it

I'm just trying to explain that it's more than a cultural norm in America--in many areas of America it's also a medical norm.

That makes more sense!

So-called medical necessity there is probably influenced by lack of exposure to normal foreskin issues as well.

Rainbowhairdontcare

Wow . We need more people who
Are brave like you .

I heard an interview with a comedian who based a whole show on him wishing he wasn’t circumcised. He had real problems coming to terms with it growing up, and tried to “regrow” it by stretching the other skin. I don’t recall him saying he was angry with his parents but it’s certainly possible that someone would be, And he didn’t have any complications. He does point out that some babies have died as a result of circumcision.

If I were a boy I would be mighty pissed off if I found out that my parents had mutilated my genitals when I was a tiny baby. If there is a medical need then surely it could be done when the need arises. My brother was circumcised due to medical issues when he was 13 and that sounds much fairer than just snipping a bit of his penis off on the off chance that he might have problems with it in the future.

Out of date, archaic nonsense. Cruel!
I have a Jewish parent who refused to circumcise my 2nd brother after first one was botched by this insanely unreasonable practice.
There is no place for circumcision in this day and age. Such a maniacal ceremony. People who circumcise their boys are up their with those who mutilate their daughters’ genitalia.

A party to celebrate cutting off a piece of your sons genitals......

Trust your instincts OP

I think it’s absolutely barbaric and disgusting to do it unless absolutely medically necessary.

My ex dh moved to America and had a baby with a woman out there and they circumcised him and I can’t even stand to look at my ex now, I’ve lost all respect for him. (We’ve been separated for 15 years and have a good relationship for dds sake so my feelings about this are purely for this reason).

There have been previous threads on MN on the same subject, when a few people have argued strongly to continue this barbaric practice for cultural or spurious health reasons.
It's good to see that they are not posting this time.

If they are lurking they are sensibly deciding to keep quiet. Perhaps they might even be sensible enough to reconsider their position.

Glad - this is how echochamber are created. You have a discussion, then you call lots of the people evil, then they don't get involved next time, and you have a set of people who agree with you. But in the big bad world outside MN the mohelim (people who carry out this op) are busier than ever. How odd....

If there is a medical need then surely it could be done when the need arises

In the UK this is the case and furthermore it may be that problems can be resolved without full circumcision. As I mentioned upthread our son 's issue was corrected with a prepuceplasty, that is widening of the foreskin by making a vertical incision then stitching it horizontally.

I don't wish to be high jacking the thread but I don't think many people are aware that this alternative exists so if your son does have a problem please don't assume he will have to be circumcised. That is not always the case in this day and age.