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Original poster

Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

999 replies

LeahSMS · 26/09/2019 10:50

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

OP posts:
RasberryRoyale · 26/09/2019 11:50

I don’t think she should be allowed back, nor do I have sympathy for her. She made a choice to leave the UK. She knew fine well she was going to Syria. And at fifteen, she understood the difference between right and wrong. It’s got nothing to do with the colour of her skin, I have the same feelings if it was Samantha Lewthwaite.

YesDearNoDear · 26/09/2019 11:51

OnlyFools

She doesn't hold another nationality, that's why it's going through the courts. Javid made her stateless, which is illegal.

dowehaveastalker · 26/09/2019 11:51

I mean - let her back in but lock her up and throw away the key.

InsertFunnyUsername · 26/09/2019 11:51

Would your children be going on playdates?

I bet you that would be a no. Wont have playdates with a parent who always serves up frozen food and swears in front of children. But a terrorist? Sure invite them in, they only need a cuddle and a bit if understanding.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 26/09/2019 11:51

For those saying ‘she was just a child’. Do you say the same about the killers of Jamie Bulger, who were only 10 at the time? I bet you don’t.

Er, yes, I do and have done when the subject comes up. Because whether we like it or not they were children. Do I condone what they did, or wave it away because they were children? Not in a month of leap year Sundays. Am I interested in understanding what drives two young children to commit such a sickening crime in the hope that by understanding, we could prevent it happening again? Absolutely.

Anyway, back to the actual topic at hand...

FlaviaAlbia · 26/09/2019 11:53

She was a child, she was groomed and she's lost her children.

Bring her back, put her though a deradicalisation program then monitor her for as long as necessary if necessary. There are programs that work for child soldiers and having a something like that available can only benefit the country and prevent future tragedies.

Damntheman · 26/09/2019 11:54

She was a child and she was brainwashed. It's absolutely disgusting the way people are ready to condemn someone and claim she knew exactly what she was doing and then in the same breath claim that Greta Thunberg doesn't know what she's doing because she's only 15. SAME AGE!

Shamima Begum did dreadful things, but she was still abused and controlled and she needs help not disparagement. Bring her home, put some real effort into deconditioning her and give her the support she needs to make up for some of what she did while brainwashed.

PuffHuffle5 · 26/09/2019 11:54

I think everything about this woman is despicable - including her overwhelming arrogance and stupidity. The things she said when the media first discovered her says pretty much everything - she had no regrets. If ISIS weren’t on its knees she would still be happily playing the housewife while ‘not being phased’ by seeing heads in bins... She only changed her tune a bit when it became clear to her that what she was saying wasn’t going down well. I also struggle to believe all these theories around ‘brainwashing’ when it comes to Western ISIS brides - to be ‘brainwashed’ into thinking terrorism and the murder of innocent people including children is somehow ok and the people doing it are good and in the right, when you have so much information around you to proove the opposite - you need to have an evil, insidious and very self-centred and arrogant streak inside you already to, I think pretty willingly, ‘fall’ for that.

justintimberlakesfishwife · 26/09/2019 11:55

@OnlyFoolsnMothers she doesn't have dual nationality. Bangladesh have confirmed that she doesn't jags citizenship. So she has been left stateless by our government . That fact alone is terrifying for all of us.
I don't believe for a moment that it would have been done several years ago, before the rise of the populist and right wing fervour this country is currently in.

titnomatani · 26/09/2019 11:55

She's realised she's made a mistake because she's miserable rather than because she thinks her ideology is wrong.

This.

It's the same as all the other criminals that get caught. Their 'sorry' isn't really sorry.

ChilledBee · 26/09/2019 11:55

Yep me too RE Bulger. They were young children with emotional issues. People were angry with themselves that they didn't do more (the witnesses) or that they'd have made a similar decision (not to intervene and see the toddler to safety).

theretheirtheyrenotno · 26/09/2019 11:55

What @ChilledBee says regarding the Jaimie Bulgar killers.

Honeypickle · 26/09/2019 11:56

@theretheirtheyrenotno I could tell you how I know, but then I’d have to kill you, so . . .

theretheirtheyrenotno · 26/09/2019 11:57

@Honeypickle so it's bullshit then?

PeggySuehadababy · 26/09/2019 11:57

It should be the UK responsibility to deal with her and the other circa 300 Isis members still in Syria who are British.

Syrians should start rebuilding their own country not dealing with unwanted Isis fighters from Europe and US. I don't think it's fair revoking citizenship and expecting someone else to clear up the mess.

Also, most of those who went to Syria should have been under the police radar and it's quite frankly worrying they managed to escape it. And there was evidence including in Shamima Begum's case that there was an intention to join Isis.

Singletomingle · 26/09/2019 11:58

If she was brought back and put in court what would she be charged with? I doubt very much there is any evidence of any crimes. I doubt she would be able to get a fair trial in any case so she would end up free and any attempt to watch her or keep track of her would be against her human rights.

motherheroic · 26/09/2019 11:59

Yes she was groomed, but she was groomed to believe something incredibly dangerous. Those of you saying she should be let in, how would you feel if she commits or helps to commit a terrorist attack on UK soil?

Frazzledmum123 · 26/09/2019 12:00

Personally I agree she was a child and was groomed and that fact alone is sad. But, a lot of paedophiles were also once innocent children who were abused. It's awful but ultimately they have to pay for what they inflict on others, most criminals comes from deprived backgrounds and you cannot just excuse their crimes because of their upbringing, however unfair it may seem.
She showed no remorse, she had regrets but only because of how it has resulted for her, not because of the people who died at the hands of those she helped. It's ok for others but when it is her she feels we should all feel sorry for her? nope.

I do however think we have a duty, not to her but to the other countries, to clear up our own mess so I think she should have been sent home and locked up

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 26/09/2019 12:01

justintimberlakesfishwife she doesnt have citizenship for Bangladesh?! If no then we shouldnt have left her stateless- still shouldn't bring her back though

NoCauseRebel · 26/09/2019 12:01

Imagine if it was your child who was groomed and essentially spirited away. That's how I like to think about it. I wouldn't stop until she was safe in the UK if my child joined ISIS I would disown them.

And even if we go by the belief that she was a child when she travelled over there, she no longer is a child. She is an adult responsible for her own decisions in life. And no, all the “the brain doesn’t mature until they’re 23” bullshit doesn’t mean anything. If that is the case then we need to start raising the age at which children are considered adults to 23, no? 23 before they can drink/drive/vote? After all, the brain isn’t mature enough before then so clearly someone over the eighteen shouldn’t be allowed responsibilities.

At eighteen she was an adult. And at eighteen she was still overseeing the killing of innocent people.

And she knew what she was doing. In order to have been groomed in the first place she had to have been in the right place for that. You know? Sites where this kind of ideology is shared. People don’t visit those sites unless they feel they have reason to do so. I mean, I wouldn’t know where to find radicals in order that I could fall “victim” to their ideologies, would you?

And I don’t believe there ever was a baby. It was far too convenient at the time and then when it didn’t work out oh look. The baby died.... Hmm yeah right.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 26/09/2019 12:04

Imagine if it was your child who was groomed and essentially spirited away. That's how I like to think about it. I wouldn't stop until she was safe in the UK

Of course, equally I imagine the parents of rapists stand by them, doesnt mean I want them moving in next door to me.

Kokeshi123 · 26/09/2019 12:04

She needs to answer for the crimes she has committed. At 15, she was not an adult, but not a child either (despite the ridiculous claims here)15 is over the age of criminal responsibility. She needs to be tried in a manner appropriate for this. Whatever happens the UK needs to take responsibility for this. She grew up here and was radicalized here, not in Bangladeshwhy on earth should the Bangladeshis have her dumped on them?

DarlingNikita · 26/09/2019 12:11

What would she be charged with as we cannot safely say she will be found guilty, therefore she will be left to her own devices.

She would need to be on a deradicalisation programme.

…15year olds that are groomed by older men and raped....they dont hurt other people, they are victims. The definition of victim is not that narrow. Begum was also a victim.

For those saying ‘she was just a child’. Do you say the same about the killers of Jamie Bulger, who were only 10 at the time? I bet you don’t. Yes, of course, because they were, you know, children Hmm
They were tried and punished appropriately and are still (AFAIK) being monitored and, in one case still incarcerated (sorry if wrong about that). While what they did was unthinkably awful, they also had appalling upbringings. Actions like those of James Bulger's killers and Shamima Begum do not just come out of nowhere and we must consider the context rather than defaulting to 'lock them up', 'let them rot' otherwise we can't call ourselves a civilised society.

Roselilly36 · 26/09/2019 12:14

I have as much sympathy for her as she has shown in remorse = Zero. She should never be allowed back. Sends out completely the wrong message and could be seen to be setting a legal prescient for others in similar circumstances.

Coffeeandchocolate9 · 26/09/2019 12:15

I don't think anybody should have their citizenship revoked. If she's so dangerous to the British people we put her in a prison in her home country where we can keep a close eye and control - by revoking her citizenship we've lost control of her. She's our problem.