Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

[LeahSMS]

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

@littlemisssugarpuffs That is utter rubbish. Answer this: would you be as sympathetic towards her if she had helped kill YOUR children? Or is it OK because she’s only helped kill Syrian children?

I feel sympathy for her, she’s just a teenager who was groomed because she was vulnerable. Her mother passed away, her father remarried and he didn’t seem to be involved in her life anyway.

She became a sex slave it seems and then lost all her children, she’s been through so much and she’s not even 20.

I think she needs to be bought back and let the government decide how much of a threat she is. Of course she needs to be punished but it should be done here so we can deradicalise her and change her ideology.

It's still my belief that ISIS recruited people who enjoyed violence to start with.
She was groomed with images of beheadings, it seems, what does that tell us?

@Butchyrestingface - not according to Syrian witnesses. She was the figurehead of the women’s branch of ISIS.

Can't see past the firewall however assuming that the story is true and not just Chinese whispers (a lot of them going around at the moment) there is a qualitative difference between what she is accused of having done in the article and what JJ is accused of having done.

Either way, she should be brought back here and dealt with by the British judiciary.

What a slap In the face for all victims of ISIS that we are now branding her (or anyone else for that matter) as innocent. I do blame the British justice system aswell. People have zero faith she will be severely punished for her part in ISIS and going by some views on this thread people would have her back in a community in a heartbeat.

I agree with Brefugee on the double standards.

I think she has done some appalling things but we should all stop and just try to imagine how unhappy/insecure/uneducated/vulnerable you'd have to be to act as she has done. And remember her extreme youth.

I think revoking her U.K. citizenship was a bad decision. It makes a martyr out of her; and she would be much better helped/rehabilitated/contained/whatever in the UK than in some hellhole camp in Syria.

Just a few months ago she was saying that she had no regrets. Now she's suddenly had a Damascene conversion? I doubt it somehow.
Why? People can change their minds. Especially as they grow up.

she did a stupid thing
As a teen, doing a stupid thing is dying your hair red; getting a tattoo. It isn't supporting an abusive terrorist organisation, secretly escaping the UK and supporting your terrorist husband.
Was she groomed? Possibly but possibly not.
The fact is she will have been party to actions that killed people. I'd treat her the same as any other UK national who went abroad to fight and/or support a terrorist organisation. I don't think her view has changed. Her circumstances have and that's why she wants to come back. She should be able to come back and then tried under the appropriate laws.

CornishCreation
Thats what grooming and radicalisation does to you.
It's like when people join cults and so on. It's a form of brainwashing and mind control.

No teenager wakes up one morning and out of nowhere decides "I hate my country and the west, I've decided mass murder is a great thing so I'll get myself a terrorist husband and watch the bloodshed".

She needs to be held to account. She needs to be locked up for a long time what she's done and that should go hand in hand with a programme of deradicalisation.
She can't be turned into some ISIS poster girl for whatever extremist ideology pops up next.

@CornishCreation
She has no passport or citizenship of this country or any other and no way out. She has to live in a foreign country and ensure her survival there. I thought she was already ostracised for saying she wanted to return to the uk. If you’re waiting for her to show remorse, she will probably be dead before anyone would have chance to reissue her citizenship let alone repatriate her.

“She was a child”
She was 15!
I was perfectly aware of my actions at 15
Let her rot

She’s unlikely to work and contribute to the economy. More likely to breed and claim benefits.
Do you have any grounds for that assertion?

She was groomed, she needs help.

I wouldn't trust her.

and is now stuck in a camp that’s all

and who is paying for that camp?
We are part of an International community and collectively we have to sort this problem out. That camp is full of children being brought up to believe in ISIS and full of people brewing resentment. The next war will come directly out of camps like that one. They are paid for by local governments, and by The Red Cross.

Why should the Syrian government pay for her, when she was radicallised IN THE UK, and is a UK citizen (or was).
It is like a man walking away form his kids and saying - no, not interested in them any more, I won't pay for them. That is what we are doing.

Whether or not you have sympathy for her, you do have responsibility as part of the nation that radicalised her to deal with her through the justice system here.

I think that if she returns to the UK she should be treated like any other British citizen and face the consequences of any laws that have been broken. The law and judiciary system should be able to deal with the situation with all the facts much better than any of us here, or any newspaper journalist. We have these systems for a reason, I don't understand why we can't just use them.

AFAIU, the British government have no obligation to go and get her, even if she is still a British citizen, although I may be wrong. She's not stuck in a holiday resort after Thomas Cook have gone under. It's not the same. If she wants to come to the UK fine. And like I say, she should face whatever procedures are already in place once she arrives.

She should be brought home immediately for 2 reasons.

1. She was a child when she was groomed to that life. We don't call children groomed into sexual relationships sluts for the rest of their lives as we recognise the abuse that led them there, I don't see this any differently.

2. She is "our problem". Leaving one of our terrorists to be dealt with in another Country is a disgrace. Not only is it not fair on Syria but it has the potential to backfire if we leave all of our terrorists in Countries that could at any moment just say, go on then, off you go. If she goes and blows up a target over there or in Turkey for example it would b eon our heads.

Bring her home.

For everyone saying bring her back and put her on trial. What would she be charged with as we cannot safely say she will be found guilty, therefore she will be left to her own devices. What are everyone’s thoughts?

I hate the comparison to 15year olds that are groomed by older men and raped....they dont hurt other people, they are victims.
Shamima Begum is a terrorist and if we have the chance to strip UK citizenship from all terrorists who originate here we should...unfortunately we cannot leave people stateless.

I agree that she was a child and we have no idea how long any subtle, insidious grooming went on for. She should be allowed back but with the understanding there are consequences for actions. So any alleged crime against the country or individuals should be investigated and if it's found she was guilty, she should serve an appropriate sentence. She should be required to undergo a de-radicalisation programme - I think she could potentially have a lot to teach us about the radicalisation of young people. She would need to accept that in the event of getting pregnant, she will automatically be required to cooperate with Social Services to ensure a healthy upbringing for any future children. I don't think any of those things are disproportionate given the seriousness of what she did, but we do need to recognise that she was groomed, just as the Rotherham CSA victims were groomed but for different ends.

I think revoking her citizenship unfortunately sends a message to those in a position to be groomed like her or sympathisers that the west is exactly like they say. She should have been brought back and placed under house arrest and encouraged to help the British authorities as much as possible. She should have been given some mercy and been shown that the UK is not what ISIS wants it's followers to believe it is. I think this plays right into their narrative and will be used to sway more people to their cause.

Imagine if it was your child who was groomed and essentially spirited away. That's how I like to think about it. I wouldn't stop until she was safe in the UK and going through all due process necessary to ensure she wasn't a risk to society if she was my daughter.

I'd want her home and safe. And possibly locked up.

InsertFunnyUserName

I can guarantee you if ISIS held on to power you would not even know her name.

Exactly my thoughts. She should not be given her British citizenship back.

Fair trial here. Punishment. Life-long monitoring by the security services. FWIW, I don’t buy any of the grooming crap or believe she is at all remorseful. But she is a British citizen and should be treated according to the law.

I hate the comparison to 15year olds that are groomed by older men and raped....they dont hurt other people, they are victims.

Off-topic, but I can't help but think of R Kelly and the women who 'teach' the other girls what he likes.

I don't think it's as simple as saying victims don't hurt other people. It's perfectly possible to be both a victim and a perpetrator. That's part of grooming. Like Stockholm Syndrome. I'm talking in general here, and not specifically about SB.