Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

[LeahSMS]

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

I think they think any country of brown Muslim people should take her

I agree that if some posters really interrogated their comments, they'd realise that their assumptions are that she's not really british because she's brown. Hard luck! She is

I know your desperately trying to turn this in to a race debate but guess what? Jihadi John wasn’t wanted back either...

Can’t see any posts fighting for him to come back.

It’s a poor conversation when you accuse people of being racist because they have a different opinion that you - and you don’t even know the colour of the skin of the people your accusing. It’s a cop out and lazy.

She was a child, I like to think we have a fair legal system. Also, somehow a 15 year old was actually able to do what she did. We need to make sure that just isn't possible. I don't know how, though.

Allow her back.
Arrest her at the airport.
Keep her in custody.
Give her a fair trial.

She is not a child now and has shown absolutely no remorse. Trying to manipulate people with allegedly fake babies and pleas for counselling whilst STILL showing support for ISIS ideology means that I feel not a shred of sympathy for her.
Allegedly fake
That. This is a chance for her to answer some of these allegations.

Yeah but how old was jihadi john? The point with Begum is that she was a child at the time and in this country children are not treated like adults.

@GreytExpectations

Psychopaths exist

Yes they do because psychopathy is considered a mental disorder and should be treated as such, it's not a choice someone just makes. A simple Google will tell you that.

There is no cure for psychopathy a simple google will tell you that as well!

It was wrong to strip her of her citizenship. She was young and made a mistake. We can not truly know what is in her heart but she has lost more to one child by not having access to proper healthcare etc and that must have done something to her mental wellbeing. Imagine losing babies that way, I can't imagine being without my children! She should be brought back and be assessed by psychologists. No doubt she should be monitored should she still have ISIS ideology. If she is convicted of any terrorist activity here then she will for sure be under lock and key. How can we not agree to take her back when she was born here but we have many people that have come from out of the country locked up in our prisons? How does this make sense. Her poor parents must be out of their head! She shouldn't be given any special treatment though imo, no change of identity or whatnot.

She was a child. She was groomed, radicalised and she was, according to British law, a victim of statutory rape (15 at time of marriage and first pregnancy).

Shamima is a British citizen and stripping her of her citizenship was unlawful ... it also set a dangerous precedent, that whilst miles apart in terms of detail and circumstance, is not unrelated ideologically to how the HO are treating other cases where citizenship is less clear cut legally, but where we morally clearly have a duty and Britain would be considered “home” by any reasonable definition. (Eg Darrell and Darren Roberts).

Shamima was the thin end of the wedge IMO. And bringing her home- because this is her home- to face justice, to be de-radicalised and offered psychological treatment, is the right thing to do in every sense of the word.

It’s good to see so many other posters are similarly minded.

Gives me hope that this country isn’t a totally rabid, racist, hoodwinked morass of postcolonial exceptionalists... despite lots of other evidence to the contrary.

She used to be a British citizen. Now she isn't.

Erm, what?

She is not a child now

The legal system tries people on the basis of the age they committed the crime. Glad to clear that up.

She used to be a British citizen. Now she isn't.

Her citizenship should never have been revoked. That's one of the main issues here. She should rightly have to go through the UK criminal justice system.

There is no cure for psychopathy a simple google will tell you that as well!

Please point out where I said there was a cure. Oh wait, I didn't.

So many bleeding hearts on here, trying to excuse what she did on the basis she was a child - she was 15 and knew exactly what she was doing....and the "because we see you" content earlier made me queasy. Did you wring your hands too after writing that?
This isn't about the colour of her skin, it's about the fact she willingly went to join a murderous, psychopathic organisation, revelled in the atrocities and only when it all went tits up said she wanted to return here, no doubt with her bloodstained hands held out for the benefits her apologists will say she's entitled to.
She has shown absolutely no remorse, she should stay and rot where she is. She's not wanted here.

They don't want her either. Why should Syria deal with her?

Full judgement just published here
www.judiciary.uk/judgments/shamima-begum-v-sshd/

It's not about excusing her actions Stonerosie67 it's about recognising they were a result of being groomed as a child.

Well said Ladyofthemanor

My comment about her moving next door (sorry can’t remember your name) is a point, she’s a dangerous person who admitted to enjoying the brutal murders she witnessed she has no place in the uk or anywhere. It doesn’t matter she was a child, she made a mature solid choice to leave the country and be involved in a disgusting group of terrorists, she wasn’t groomed by an older man next door and convinced of the life style, she researched it and left. A mistake at 15 is a quick smoke behind the bike shed at school, she chose to involve herself in violence and terrorism thats unforgivable.

She was accepted by the country she joined they can now take responsibility. Whether that’s right or wrong is irrelevant. She doesn’t need to have any one responsible for her, she did make a choice to enjoy a lifestyle of rape and murder so she should live that horrific life until she dies. If she comes back she won’t last 10 minutes before she’s attacked or worse. If I were her I’d stay put for my own safety. If you think she deserves a second chance welcome her to your home and help her see the error of her ways...

I would bring her home. I think that stripping someone who was born here and largely grew up here of their citizenship is a very sticky wicket. Javid revoked it knowing full well that she had never even lived in Bangladesh, so the Bangladeshi government would not have her. And so it proved to be.

I believe she was groomed as a teenager before she left for Syria. She was extremely foolish but she can be brought back here and observed from a prison or other secure detention centre. She can then be given a fair trial. She cannot have any of that while she is under the wing of what remains of ISIS.

While she remains under the wing of ISIS and with no other protection then how can we begin to assess what she really believes now? She is hardly likely to publicly condemn them on camera while they are watching her, is she? She would be signing her own death warrant for sure by doing that. She has been foolish for sure, but she isn't that thick.

15 year olds are still very childish and often ideologically minded. So an easy target for grooming by those who are so inclined.

Well said, Iwalkinmyclothing.

How can she both be a child and make 'a mature solid choice'?

What @longcoffee said:

She may well have been a victim of grooming, but she's also guilty of terrorism.
*
Being a victim and being a criminal aren't mutually exclusive, just because you are one, doesn't mean you can't be the other.*

^^This

She is British, she was a child, we need to bring her home and put her through due process.
She's a British citizen, she is our responsibility, I am happy to contribute to her welfare and the costs of putting her through the justice system.

Those of you who don't agree that she was groomed, and was fully in control of her actions; do you feel the same about the girls involved with the Rotherham grooming gangs?

It was unlawful to strip her of her citizenship and leave her stateless, whatever the other details are. She's British. She needs to be brought back here to be dealt with.

*I believe she was groomed as a teenager before she left for Syria. She was extremely foolish but she can be brought back here and observed from a prison or other secure detention centre. She can then be given a fair trial. She cannot have any of that while she is under the wing of what remains of ISIS.

While she remains under the wing of ISIS and with no other protection then how can we begin to assess what she really believes now? She is hardly likely to publicly condemn them on camera while they are watching her, is she? She would be signing her own death warrant for sure by doing that. She has been foolish for sure, but she isn't that thick.*

Very well said @Topseyt I've been trying to make these same points but you have explained it much better than I could!

The problem isn't so much how and why she got to where she is. The real problem is how dangerous is she now to western society?

Her views seem entrenched and I would worry that she would play along with being deradicalised but not actually be able to change her mindset. Or not want to.

I'm sceptical about the existence of her children. Is there any actual proof or were they a useful vehicle for sympathy?