To keep on punishing my 5 year old for being silly at school

[Sunlight82]

I am an ex primary school teacher, now university in lecturer. I thought I would have this while parenting lark sewn up but I have come to the realisation that I don’t and am really floundering at the moment.

I have a 7 year old DD who is that perfect child at school - good at everything, never been in any trouble, chosen for everything, very mature etc. So I have never faced this situation before.

I also have a 5 year old DS. He is an absolutely lovely little boy in many ways. He is funny, has a great sense of humour, clever, thirsty for knowledge, kind and knows so much about the world. However, he is constantly getting into trouble at school for his silliness.

He lost so many sanctions in Reception for things like running down corridors, spinning in Hymn practice, gambolling in the middle of assembly, playing rough with the boys at playtime. Nothing malicious, all just over the top and silly.

At home he is loving, funny, gets in well with his sister. They never fight and he can play for hours with his lego without a murmur. He can sit down when I ask to practice handwriting etc. And does it beautifully.

We had big talks about it over the summer. Practiced keeping calm and not getting over excited and how he had to try really hard in Year 1.

Well things are exactly the same if not worse. We have now been summoned to see the class teacher tomorrow as he lost 10 sanctions last week. Some seem quite harsh (picking his nose) and others justified (accidentally kicking a girl up the bottom whilst pretending to be a bucking bronco).

We have been punishing him at home for losing sanction but at this point he has lost everything - no TV, no toys, dinner on his own each night, straight to bed at 6, no treats, nothing. He has nothing left to lose. We never shout and in desperation we shouted at him over the weekend. He cried himself to sleep curled up in a tiny ball. When he woke up he came into me and said ‘I’m so sorry mummy. I try to be good for you but my body just does things and I can’t stop.’

He went to school today trying so hard to be good and ended up losing another sanction. He was devastated when I picked him up and kept apologising. I really don’t know what to do. I feel so sad for him. He is not ready for the formality of school. He is still so lively and silly and immature in many ways. I have cried buckets for days as I feel like I am breaking his little spirit and I hate myself for it. But equally I don’t want him marked as the naughty boy at school who has a difficult life there and never gets chosen for anything.

In desperation I have considered home schooling him and asked him if he would prefer that tonight. But he said he loves school and would miss playing with his friends.

His dad and I have no idea what we should be doing in this situation. Please help.

Firstly don’t punish at home, he’s already been punished in school.
Secondly, focus and really reward the good, and ignore the bad (within reason, obviously hurting another child isn’t ignored).
Thirdly, is he doing any activities after school? Football, Judo, Rugby, swimming, Gymnastics? That will help with his energy levels. Even going out each evening on his bike, around the park will do him good.

I have to add that your punishment was outrageous.

'Dinner on his own each night" what were you thinking?

Your poor little boy, let down by so many adults around him, he's 5.

I also do not believe you were a primary school teacher, not in the UK anyway.

It's 10 o'clock at night, isn't a 5 year old going to be a but startled by all this. If this is true I would wait until the morning.

Oh I really do hope this is all not true now

What a heartbreaking thread.

He sounds absolutely gorgeous! Especially the bucking bronco and gambolling in assembly! I want to gambol during assemblies but our head won't like it one bit!

He sounds just like a little boy I had in my class last year. Apparently his brain made him do things to spice things up!

Sorry I'm no help- I love cute, naughty boys in my class.

Give him lots of hugs and stop the punishments. He sounds very contrite.

It sounds a bit complicated to me.
If you are a primary teacher it must feel like an extra pressure to have well behaved children who thrive at school.
The teacher sounds inexperienced and is using sanctions too frequently and rewards insufficiently.
He only needs one sanction for each misdemeanour and punishment at home as well feels excessive. He’ll end up believing he’s a bad child and the situation will deteriorate.
Speak to class teacher and suggest a reward programme rather than a sanction based behaviour framework.
Provide the rewards (buttons in a jar) that he can bring home each week to exchange for a small prize.
He needs to understand explicitly what he will receive a reward for. If he sits quietly facing forward and sings during hymn practice he gets a button. If he completes the set work, he gets a button. etc.
The school should be looking for good and building on it. As should you.
Every day cuddle up with him, read a book together and tell him what you like about him. Very specifically. Tell him you noticed he ate his peas all up nicely. Tell him you were pleased he was so helpful carrying the shopping.
Give the child a chance to see and feel what success and good feels like.

As virtually every other poster has said but just to add...your poor little boy cried himself to sleep. This is just so sad.

As so many have said 5 is still so tiny. Rather than punishing him further at home, I would go for making sure he got lots and lots of physical activity. So park, dog walk, trampolining, whatever; and none of it conditional on behaviour, just something you’re doing because it’s good for both of you. Perhaps arrange a meeting with the teacher and senco, the one thing that jumped off the page at me was the possibility of adhd. Also, in your OP you compare him quite negatively to his sister, you’ll want to make sure that isn’t something he picks up on.

Sorry to gatecrash but how did you go from primary to lecturing? I'd like to do this too.

When your DS wakes up in the morning.. big cuddle.. new day fresh start...

Give him his stuff back..I realise you work but if possible get him to walk to school..play an active game before he is expected to sit down.

I am a cm on rainy days when i know they will be stuck indoors all day lots of skip 20 steps. jump 20 steps, fave beakfast send him off in a good place. Remember your words..be a good boy is not great as if he fails through picking his nose ( which i would say is extremely common in 5 year olds) he has failed... Be your best self, be the star you, are, do your best work.. are far better.

yes consequences are in school.. Otherwise he will simply stop opening up to you. Also it is the second punishment..He can't move on with his day as he knows there is a consequence at home..

My son has ADHD and gets in trouble for silliness, He already feels rubbish for getting in trouble he doesn't need me piling on..WE do talk about what he could do differently next time. Eg if he wants to be buckeroo make sure no one is in his way, if he wants to do a forward roll try and keep it in till break.. He just sounds young and impulsive.. As isn't that unusual in a 5 year old.

Make sure you praise behaviours at home he isn't doing in school..I would also ask the school to look at rewarding the positive behaviours... and ignore or just ask him to stop if he has his finger up his nostril.

I can't help but think he sounds a young boy full of fun and not ready to sit down for long periods of time.

I could cry for your poor son, a bad day at school because because he finds it difficult not to be a bit silly and he comes home to his toys taken off him and dinner on his own? How in God’s name do you think that is going to help? I agree that the school sound harsh but he should not be pushed out of his family dinner time. That is the place he’s supposed to feel welcome and safe. You also mention he plays so nicely with his toys then take them off him as ‘punishment’ for picking his nose at school?! Poor little boy.

I agree with others that working with the school or looking into a different option is a good step.

Sorry but I'm horrified at this "no TV, no toys, dinner on his own each night, straight to bed at 6, no treats, nothing. He has nothing left to lose."

Dinner on his own each night? For twirling around in hymn practice. School have sanctioned him already. Why on earth are you adding to the punishments at home?

This wouldn't happen in prison because there's a thing called double jeopardy.

Forget your previous teaching experience, to this little boy you are his mum. Make him feel safe and included. Not naughty and different.

Good, but don't wake him up OP.

He need consistency from you, when he wakes up, squeeze him, love him, talk to him, tell him everything is going to be ok.

Tell him you never want him to change, he sounds like a normal little boy.

What!? Why are you punishing him at home for things he does in school OP!? They are two separate things! Stop! Please! Otherwise the poor child will never get a moments reprieve! And that school sounds way too harsh and I would be letting them know that! Picking his nose!?turning round in assembly!? Dear god it’s not 1923!! Let him be a kid, I would laugh at the teacher if they told me they sanctioned my child for picking his nose!! And I AM a teacher too!!!

It makes me sad that he is punished at home for school behaviour.

He is so young

Please be kind to him at home and he has a lot of unused energy. Either he needs a lot more physical activity or the opposite and something like children's yoga might help him unwind.
I am sure he is very lovable and I think the school are being very harsh on him.

OP I sympathise because my DD1 was like this but had SEN too. What I didn’t appreciate at the time was that she was by no means the only child who was like this. She had speech delay so it was only when DD2 started and told me some of the things that go on in her class that I took a step back and realised that actually, a lot of the stuff was just immaturity that no manner of sanctions would stop, she just had to grow out of it in her own time. But it was so demoralising being told day after day ‘she’s done x, she’s done y’ and I was really eager to show school I was supporting them so I would try no tv etc at home and it turned out home life into hell.

Your DS hasn’t done anything awful by the sounds of it. He does sound like he has a lot of energy to burn though so maybe park after school and walk to school if you can so he knows pre and post school he gets a chance to be free? Good luck and don’t beat yourself up about what you’ve done, you were trying to do the right thing.

Had a chat with friends today and noticed that the 3 boys who misbehaved the most in the year are those whose parents were the strictest and didnt give them a chance to relax and run of steam at home

You’re feeling desperate because you are anxious about his behaviour at school and it’s something that you’re not in control of. I know a lot of people think you’re being really harsh and I get it, but I do think it’s probably because you feel like you don’t know what else to do. You’re reaching out and asking for advice because you don’t like how things are. I feel for you and you need some support. I’d speak to the head about your concerns. I do think that some of the things he’s doing such as picking his nose are really crazy things to be punished for!! But at the same time there will be some rules that the teacher will need him to follow because she/ he will have a room full of children his as that need to be taught too. We could talk all day about how the system doesn’t support 5 year old boys but it won’t help this situation. Go to the school and talk to the head about it. X

OP - teacher here and to be frank - it sounds as if it is the teacher who needs a re set, not your little boy. No 5 year old should be sanctioned so many times in one day.
He's so little and a good teacher should be able to harness his energy and motivate him to want to please him / her. Not handing out persistent criticism. Obviously you must be open to hearing feedback about your child BUT if he has a teacher who doesn't like him so early in the term, then that's very serious. An unkind teacher can crush a little child with persistent criticism. I'd listen carefully to what they say and look out for signs that he is not liked / welcomed.

Well, I wouldn't punish him at home. He's already been punished at school. Some children are just energetic and physical movements actually provide release from learning and can often actually help consolidate learning. He's bright and doing well and not naughty, just energetic. Don't crush his spirit at home. Also talk to the school about strategies that actually work and your concern that he's impulsive, not naughty and that you don't want him to feel badly of himself,which he does. Also, don't tie yourself up in knots over this. Suggesting home schooling was rather drastic. Just relax and accept him for who he is. And if the school can't accept him, then consider a more fitting environment if that is an option.

OMG this post has brought tears to my eyes. Poor little boy, crying himself to sleep in a little ball!?

I know it’s hard OP but please go give him a big hug right now.

Oh OP, your son sounds like mine. I too thought about home schooling because I was so desperate about the way the school seemed to be missing what an amazing little boy he was and I felt his lovely spirit was being broken. The school asked me to support them by reinforcing their sanctions with further punishments at home. I tried it for a bit, but it felt wrong, and as others have said, it was unfair to punish him twice. The school had "golden hour" on a Friday afternoon, which was time for the children to do a range of different fun activities. Every misdemeanour resulted in 5 minutes of golden hour missed. In six years my boy never had a full golden hour - every Friday he would have to spend some time sitting doing nothing for 5, 10, 25 minutes as punishment for whatever silly things he'd done earlier in the week. Eventually, we realised it wasn't working as a punishment because to him that was just Friday afternoons, and all he had ever known.

These are the things that did work for us:

1. A report book from the school. In this the teacher would write down a sentence about how he'd been in each lesson of the day, including the "misdemeanours" that he was getting into trouble for. After a few weeks of reading this, I was able to spot patterns and show the teacher how she was at times contributing to the undesirable behaviour. I - and the teacher - could also see that there were a lot of positive lessons where he didn't misbehave. This actually changed the teacher's view of him, and massively improved their relationship. This happened in year 6, and I wish we'd hit on it earlier.

1. As part of the report book, I told my son (and his teacher) that if he got 80% positive comments in a week, there would be a reward. Something like a new book, or a small toy. Winning something he wanted motivated him more than the fear of punishment. When he started hitting 80% fairly consistently I challenged him to go for 100% for two weeks straight with a big reward at the end of it. He did it.

1. Harder work. It sounds like your boy is intelligent, and is getting bored. If he's engaged with things that stretch his brain, he'll not have time to spin around etc. Being recognised as needing harder work gave my son a boost and the harder work took up some of his extra energy.

1. Growing up. My boy is 11 now, just started secondary school and he's doing so well. Like a different child - all the teachers like him, and praised him for the quality of his work. He has been asked once to stop fidgeting (the new scientific calculator was proving too exciting to be left alone) but that's the only "telling off" he's had in the last three weeks.

Hang on in there, and don't stop believing in your amazing child. You are his advocate, and you must help the school to see him as you do.

Forget he's your son for a minute. If he was someone else's child in your classroom how would you deal with it? Would you talk to the parents about Autism, ADHD? Would you be putting positive re-enforcement strategies in place. His school seems to be giving sanctions rather than positives for him. Would you advise Forest School or another activity to channel his energy?