To keep on punishing my 5 year old for being silly at school

[Sunlight82]

I am an ex primary school teacher, now university in lecturer. I thought I would have this while parenting lark sewn up but I have come to the realisation that I don’t and am really floundering at the moment.

I have a 7 year old DD who is that perfect child at school - good at everything, never been in any trouble, chosen for everything, very mature etc. So I have never faced this situation before.

I also have a 5 year old DS. He is an absolutely lovely little boy in many ways. He is funny, has a great sense of humour, clever, thirsty for knowledge, kind and knows so much about the world. However, he is constantly getting into trouble at school for his silliness.

He lost so many sanctions in Reception for things like running down corridors, spinning in Hymn practice, gambolling in the middle of assembly, playing rough with the boys at playtime. Nothing malicious, all just over the top and silly.

At home he is loving, funny, gets in well with his sister. They never fight and he can play for hours with his lego without a murmur. He can sit down when I ask to practice handwriting etc. And does it beautifully.

We had big talks about it over the summer. Practiced keeping calm and not getting over excited and how he had to try really hard in Year 1.

Well things are exactly the same if not worse. We have now been summoned to see the class teacher tomorrow as he lost 10 sanctions last week. Some seem quite harsh (picking his nose) and others justified (accidentally kicking a girl up the bottom whilst pretending to be a bucking bronco).

We have been punishing him at home for losing sanction but at this point he has lost everything - no TV, no toys, dinner on his own each night, straight to bed at 6, no treats, nothing. He has nothing left to lose. We never shout and in desperation we shouted at him over the weekend. He cried himself to sleep curled up in a tiny ball. When he woke up he came into me and said ‘I’m so sorry mummy. I try to be good for you but my body just does things and I can’t stop.’

He went to school today trying so hard to be good and ended up losing another sanction. He was devastated when I picked him up and kept apologising. I really don’t know what to do. I feel so sad for him. He is not ready for the formality of school. He is still so lively and silly and immature in many ways. I have cried buckets for days as I feel like I am breaking his little spirit and I hate myself for it. But equally I don’t want him marked as the naughty boy at school who has a difficult life there and never gets chosen for anything.

In desperation I have considered home schooling him and asked him if he would prefer that tonight. But he said he loves school and would miss playing with his friends.

His dad and I have no idea what we should be doing in this situation. Please help.

The OP has come on twice now to say that the punishments will stop.

I think we can stop telling her this now.

I am sure the cuddles will make you both feel better now OP. Good luck with the reset. How to Talk So Kids Will Listen is an excellent book that will help with positive parenting without punishment.

Where these 'punishments' your idea or his Dad's? Didn't one of you say to the other that perhaps the approach was all wrong, I appropriate and cruel?

We're not where and inappropriate not what I said above

My nephew is 5 and imagining him eating dinner all alone and then curling up in a ball to cry without comfort almost made me cry. I am really strict but the level of punishments are disproportionate and cruel. Being sad at school and then coming home to loneliness, no play and bed.

The school also sound draconian and I used to work with that age group. Children can be a bit silly in a group generally and the smaller ones struggle with the strict routine, which is why I personally feel they should start school later, like in other countries or accept they are bloody five years old, not robots.

Positive reinforcement works so much better. Let school punish the child, though personally I would be moving him somewhere less Victorian. If he goes a few days without an sanction then do something nice with both the children. Stop comparing your children too, they are individuals. I was the swotty, sweet child and my little brother really struggled with school as the teachers constantly compared us. It was damaging. One style parenting doesn't fit every child

No tv and similar sanctions, I get - but eating alone! Jesus h. That is not an effective, constructive or humane sanction for a 5 year old.

I think women are rightly wary of the ‘boys will be boys’ line, as it’s used to justify all kinds of nonsense.

But in this case I think it’s apt. He’s 5 years old. He’s just a boy. Some boys are boisterous and silly and they do all kinds of ridiculous things.

I don’t think this school is dealing with the situation at all intelligently. I’d look around for somewhere better.

My DS is like this, his punishment stops at school unless serious EG fighting which happened once. This was dealt with and never happened again. I think moving school would be an excellent idea as they are not the right school for him (honestly they sound horrid for constant punishments for absolutely everything it seems) and constantly being punished will not help him. Positive re-enforcement is what is needed and he is lacking this as school and at home from what is described. At this rate punishments will be his key foundation and he will see this as the norm. I feel for you and your DS, please stop this nonsense and stop the school from pointless punishments, serious stuff yes, but not this.

Take him out of that po-faced hellhole of a school and find him somewhere with professionals who have a clue about how children work, for a start.

That spinning/kicking/jumping/arm-twirling he does? That's his body LEARNING. He's developing his gross motor skills and learning to locate himself in space and exercise control over his physical environment. If he isn't allowed to do that, he won't ever learn to write properly.

At the moment he is being taught that he is, as a person, Not Good Enough. For school, for his teacher, for you. Isolating him at mealtimes is the worst thing you can do at this point - you are telling him that because he can't do the things you are all demanding of him - and he CAN'T do them yet, because he is simply too young - he doesn't qualify as a member of your family and you therefore do not want him with you. Please, if you do nothing else, put him back in his family for mealtimes.

Everything about this situation is toxic. I have made some glaring errors as a parent and done things - meaning well - which I would now consider pretty harmful and I flinch when I think about them. You'll look back on this and wish you hadn't done it, we all have those regrets. What matters is that it stops, today. You need to sit him down and explain that Mummy has been doing this wrong, and there are going to be some changes. No more punishments for things he cannot help.

Find him a better school.

I think you need to turn things around and reward him when he does positive things whilst ignoring the bad. You need to build his confidence up not crush him. Schools always seem to punish too much and not reward enough. Perhaps if his teacher rewarded him when he was good and ignored what they consider bad (but is probably normal 5 year old behaviour) he would be happy and not sad and upset.

Certainly don’t punish him for something he did at school, as others have already said he has been punished once already don’t add to it.

Well, I had two very lively, inquisitive boys. They went to local primaries and then on to our comprehensive. They were bright and both went to Cambridge. I didn't 'punish' them and try to instil in them a fear of school.
You don't sound like a teacher. Punishment is not a word used by schools these days.
You sound unreasonable and unkind to your child.

Both his dad and I know we have made a massive mistake. We have both sat here tonight so upset about it. We were trying to show that we were supporting the school as someone said previously.

I feel such a fool. I used all those positive behaviours in my own classroom. And I just couldn’t see the wood for the trees when it was my own darling baby. I am so ashamed.

I'm glad to read your update OP.

Is it a private school? A state school should not be disciplining a five year old for picking their nose. It's antediluvian. I was smacked by my teacher at five when I picked my nose and I've never forgotten it. It was really humiliating. She punished me for all sorts of tiny things like this and my 'academic' performance went through the floor, funnily enough.

If I were you I'd look at a different school that can actually address your child's totally normal needs, such as moving around like a five year old. The school sounds way too punitive. My kids' primary was always very clear that we shouldn't punish them for (run of the mill) things that had been dealt with at school. It's already been dealt with.

Show him love and attention. Make sure he can go for a run around and let off steam before bed. Do not remove him from family meals and do not let him cry himself to sleep for behaviour which is totally normal. The latter two are cruel.

If you are more concerned about his behaviour call in a private educational psychologist and get some advice for the school and for you on how best to deal with him. But please stop punishing him for being five! And tell the school to move into the 21st century too.

Sunlight, I didn't read all the replies so sorry if someone already raised the point, but do you think he may have ADHD? At school there is so much noise and endless stimulation and ADHD kids finds it really challenging. They also exhibit impolsivity and many others symptoms. .. very hard to diagnose in boys at such a young age as everyone just dismiss this as "being just a little boy" or "boyish behaviour.." also people with ADHD exhibit different aspect of the condition which makes it even harder to pick up, especially for the unaware teachers. (It is shocking how little schools and educators know about the condition, even SEN teachers)

My son was like that. It wasnt untill yr7 (!) that it all went completely out of control at secondary school and we finally met a good pediatrician that sent him to be diagnosed. He was diagnosed with ADHD. In seconds, my brain scrolled years back remebering the all too many times I couldnt explain why the unusual behaviour. It was painful and sad but also a relief to have some reasoning. So many boys go under the radar which in the long run can impact reputation, self esteem etc as they are constantly being labeled as trouble makers and painfully and endlessly penalised.

I wish you all the best and finding a solution. What ever it is, your son sounds lovely, intelligent and charismatic!

I also agree with the pp who said don't wake him.. Give him a kiss , quietly tell him you love him and let him sleep.. big cuddle in the morning.

I will start by saying I am an emotional person but your post made me cry. Your poor boy, he’s just being a bit silly. My (now 8) year old was (and still is sometimes) a bit daft and I think it was to show off and make people laugh and make friends. I guess he’s a bit calmer and didn’t get into trouble, except for taking too much.
I really wonder why the school keeps talking about ‘sanctions’ for such minor things such as picking your nose?? He’s 5, half his class must have their finger up their nose at some point in the day! I bare to assume but I really think this is a private school where all must ‘conform’? I’d hate them to be telling my son off for such stupid reasons and would honestly be looking to move him ASAP before he starts living up to this ‘being naughty’ label they seem to want to stick on him.
To me he sounds bloody gorgeous! Good luck with everything.

Good acknowledgement that you need to change OP but getting a 5 year old out of bed at 10 pm to assuage your own guilt? Not ok.

This sanctions system sounds mad to me - can they redeem themselves at all for poor behaviour or is it just a relentless tally of black marks? My DCs' school at that age had a chart on the wall that had about five "grades" ( lowest a raincloud, highest pot of gold at the end of the rainbow) you could move up and down. I think it was usually reset each day too.

Have a read about what kids in Finland are expected to do at age 5-6 .

It's so sad that the school are expecting little kids to spend so much time sitting still. I'd be looking for another school, or home ed him until he's 7 or so and more ready to settle down.

Crying here and I don't even know your DS.

He is only little, I remember my DS at that age, all spirited and fun. Please don't crush his soul, he is who he is, it isnt a fault.

My youngest DD is spirited in an overtly lazy way, the same school have had my older 2 pass through and I get enty of comment that she isnt the same. No, she isn't, she is who she is and yes, she is feisty. But that's one of the many things I love about her.

This teacher is bonkers. Stick up for your little boy and be proud of him. You can explain co him what's what without destroying his sense of self.

Still crying. Poor thing.

but at this point he has lost everything - no TV, no toys, dinner on his own each night, straight to bed at 6, no treats, nothing

Jesus. How did you get to that point. I'm glad you've reconsidered your approach which was cruel and unnecessary.

Please don’t feel ashamed. I feel for you. Lots of people on here suggesting a diagnosis. HE’S 5! Why can’t he just be 5?! Why does spinning on his bottom need to be ADHD? Maybe it’s because he’s 5?! Please, please don’t start to over think this. It’s normal behaviour for a 5 year old. He’s transitioning into year 1. Xx

God, not Finland again. I swear the Finnish Marketing Association have infiltrated Mumsnet.

You might find his behaviours at school improve if you stop being so harsh at home.

OP this was exactly my DS too. Always in trouble for silly behaviour, too young to be at school, couldn’t sit still. His Reception teacher couldn’t understand him and just dished out punishments. He was always on the ‘grey cloud’ instead of the ‘rainbow’. Once she was cross because he accidentally splattered himself with mud at playtime. He was only just 5! I lost respect for her after that. Looking back I feel so sorry for him, it was just too much expected too young.
Fortunately his Y1 teacher was much better. But then his Y2 teacher was very strict and things went downhill again. As others have said, if they are always in trouble, what do they have to lose? Children have to be in education for years ahead, and if they start off having such a negative experience it’s not going to help them in the long run.

My DS turned out to have some sensory / dyspraxia issues which meant he needed lots of exercise, time outdoors, opportunity to burn off energy. Sitting still in a classroom was very hard. We got referred for sessions with an occupational therapist which were very helpful.

Anyway things were just getting worse and worse at school and I decided to take a different tack. His self-esteem got so low after years of being told off I had to do a lot of building it back up again. We constantly praised good behaviour and gave him lots of opportunities to do well - eg helping round the house. (Obviously if he had behaved deliberately badly that was different).

He is older now and still fidgety and silly but he is also a very kind, caring and gentle boy and gradually learning to control his impulses!
I do feel for you OP, none of us what to have ‘that child’. But as long as your son isn’t acting deliberately or maliciously then give him some slack and try and help him rather than punish.

Yes, he does sound very funny and sweet. My two DC both have this side to them, slightly non conformist, I am quietly pleased as I think it shows an impressive imagination.

Absolutely heartbreaking OP 😢

Good to read your update, saves me expressing my horror at the whole situation and your treatment of your son.

I am not impressed with the school. Does it have a very strict ethos? All of that sounded like an energetic 5 year old boy, not a reason to be worried.

And maybe with too much energy if not burning it off at home and with a later bedtime for more evening activity.