Absolutely on my knees and I don’t know what to do

[TooMuchPeppa86]

I don’t even know where to start

I work part time (3 days) in a job that doesn’t really fit into part time hours. I cut my hours because I have two wee girls (5 and 2) who are my whole world and I thought it’s fine it’ll be a few years of working at nights once they’re asleep and then I can increase my hours in the office once they’re at school.

Five year old started school last month. Her sleep is beyond horrific. She has no interest in sleep she won’t even try. But I need to stay in her room or she just kicks off. Last night it was 11pm before she went to sleep. I then had to work until 3am to stay afloat.

I can’t do this any more. I can’t. The first thought I had when I woke up this morning was sheer panic about how behind I am at work because I can’t fit it all in.

She won’t have DH. He does the housework at night and keeps that ticking over.

I would suggest lots of active listening, 'special time', just you and her - doesn't need to be long, 10 minutes a day. Also - daylight, as much as possible. Exercise, fresh air. www.ahaparenting.com for lots of tips on the special time idea.

It sounds like your daughter is worried about something or just missing you. You need to combine firm boundaries (putting her to bed, snuggling for ten minutes, leaving her) with lots and lots of love, hugs, and listening/understanding. Starting school is massive. My son was hellish until I implemented the 'aha parenting' stuff.

An amazing transformation, very quickly, though it was hard work. He sleeps very well now, tho will always be an early riser.

This is probably a terrible thing to do but I’ve been using bribes!!! My Dd has a chart, and can choose a toy each morning if she has stayed in her own bed. I bought a bunch of very cheap playmobil on eBay and she chooses a piece from that.
Anyway it’s worked like a charm! No idea how to wean her off the idea but I’m going with it!

No screen time before bed, no audio books. A very short story then bed. Tough love. Take some days off work and power through the pain, she's probably clingy because she's exhausted.

My first D's was like this and I pandered to it for years, then one day I just snapped and said no more. Best decision I ever made. Was a brutal week but it put an end to it all. My dh was fab, cos the screaming drove me mad so he used to deal with it while I blocked my ears .

If you can do ten nights it will become a new routine.
Have a nap after you put her down so she thinks you are asleep, everyone is asleep, nothing of interest happening. Set alarm for yourself and wake up at 5 am to catch up on work. It goes so much faster after sleep.

Can you split the difference and cut your job back to two days a week until things get easier?

I would NOT try to force your daughter to separate from you before she is ready, especially just as she is starting school. I expect that will only make her more clingy and undermine your efforts to encourage independence. Can you do your work at night on a laptop in her room, sitting on the bed with her, so she has no reason to get out of bed to find you? It's the getting out of bed that wakes them up all over again (I had a nightmare sleeper too) so if you can trap her there by staying there yourself, providing the comfort of your presence but not the stimulation of your attention, maybe she will settle more quickly.

Five and two is not easy - give yourself a break and hang in there! It will get easier as they get older!

My daughter was exactly the same my local costa became a way out. Mummy has got to work daddy will put you to bed and I’ll see you in the morning. It is hard but it will do both of you good x

I was like this aged about 7 - could not/would not sleep. The only thing I remember having an effect was one time when my mum absolutely lost it and another time I found her crying alone in the kitchen because I was constantly out of bed.

I would say being nice just dragged out the period when I was doing this - it was only when my mum left me sobbing alone in a tent with my cousin (we were camping in the garden) that I got it and slept much better from then on. I remember literally looking through the living room window and crying begging to come in and she would not relent. It sounds awful but it sorted it out.

I used to have this issue with one of my children, slightly younger tho. In a nutshell, I had to knacker the child out so that when we did the 'tea, milk, bath, teeth, bed & story' thing it worked. It took a couple of days!
We literally picked up from nursery, took to the park to play for a good hour or more, find other activities to keep busy, early teatime, back to the park for another hour or so before the rest of the normal routine. We got our child into bed for 8:30-9pm from 11pm! Good luck x

Relax kids cds are good. Try amazon.

My children (13, 12, 10) all have fans that they switch on at bed time, all year round, which provides white noise. DD1 has melatonin (SN) and DD2 has an eye mask (she's afraid of the dark, because of what might be there, but wearing an eye mask reassures her that it's dark for a reason).

DD2 still gets up with anxiety (she has ASD) but will return to bed much quicker now.

She sounds quite like my very anxious 7 year old. She is probably finding school a lot more stressful than anyone realises and really needs you right now.
I am a teacher and need to work in the evenings, until about 6 months ago I would sit in his room on laptop and do my work. No chat, no fun after lights out. Just having me there was enough to help him settle. For the last 6 months or so he has got so much more independent and goes to sleep with a meditation within half an hour of bed. Fighting him would never have worked, he would just be so much more anxious now. This won't last forever, you sound like a great mum and you are the person who knows your daughter best.

I had/have the non sleeping DD. She had huge seperation anxiety from about 5 months till 2.5 years and has an endocrine issue that affects appetite and sleep. She didn't sleep as a tiny newborn, she didn't sleep as a toddler and at 10, she still doesn't think much of sleep now. We saw professionals, tried medication, bought every book going - nothing worked.

Solution was to completely ditch bedtime. We have a rule that after 9pm is mummy & daddy time. She doesn't have to go to bed, but she has to do things that are quiet and don't require adult participation.

She tends to go off to bed about 11pm and spends her time colouring or reading.

Done this since she was 3 - she doesn't appear to need sleep like most people as she's up at 6.30am and does school and a huge number of extra-curricular activities that should wear her out - and while it's mildly annoying not to have 100% child free evenings, we have also never had to deal with tantrums over bed.

Good luck and I hope you find something that works... unlike DD, I don't function well on no sleep and it's really tough.

I have no advice but you will get through this because you have to. As DD and I spent less time together because of custody arrangements and my studying, I found her behaviour was similar. So before bed I carved out time just for her where we play a game or make a puzzle and she became a lot more assured that I was there for her. It is easier because I only have the one, but life won't always be this way OP. You'll get through this

If I were you I’d go up to four days. Women/mums so often have to put up with this shit - do as much work as you did before, but in less time and for less money. Oh, and if you don’t, you need to feel ALL THE GUILT. It’s bullshit.

Your younger daughter will likely not be cognaisant of the fact you’re doing an extra day, and certainly isn’t likely to remember it! She’ll probably appreciate the fact her mum isn’t having a breakdown a lot more.

The sleep thing sounds tough, but it’ll be fixable and much more manageable in the meantime if you’re not overburdened with work.

Let her dad do all bed times for a month. Milky drink, story, night light, low music in background (not audio books repetitive music ballads) sit on the floor (your dh) and don't take any fuss.. In bed lie down quietly even if you're not tired only get up to use loo.
She may kick up put your headphones on loud enough to ignore.

Sometimes when kids sense frustration they know they're winning

Coming from Children’s mom who doesn’t have this problem. Let me tell you. You need to be very firm with her. It breaks my heart and I kiss them at the same time as telling them off and explain in kind and firm words and I’ve not really ever had this problem. My nieces make it into a game and I put them straight to bed. I don’t entertain it at all. I never tell my children off unless they don’t sleep, be rude to each other or throw toys etc. And that’s why they know what they can and can’t do. Go to the school nurse for advice as well. She needs bonding time with your partner too so he can help out. Don’t don’t dont quit your job.

It would be easier for your dh to settle her if you’re out for the evening...is your work doable on a laptop away from the house?

I have sympathy, but sleep training should have been done years ago.
If you have honestly tried everything then maybe the only option is to get tough and not pander to her in any way.

Does she not need much sleep? I need a lot, as does Ds2, not Ds1 needs barely any.

DS1 was a terrible sleeper and quite clingy/ needy... couldn't quite put my finger on it for years. NHS ruled out ADHD aged 8 but he developed appalling anxiety at 9, after a personal trauma.

Looking back, I can now see he had an anxious personality all along. He was anxious being on his own. Even now aged 17, he's rarely solitary ( but he's a great sleeper!).

What worked for me was a bit counterintuitive... but like a PP, I put him in with his younger brother - 5 year age gap.

It worked. I got them bunk beds but they didn't even go to bed at same time. DS1 just slipped in to the room quietly later on. He just needed to know he was not alone.

They shared for about 3 years then went back to separate rooms by mutual agreement!

Of course she is.
Just toughen up with her ffs. Bed means bed. End of. I wouldn't be pandering to that cr@TooMuchPeppa86

I'm afraid I absolutely agree with Ohrolono, there is no way I would tolerate this crap and my child would soon know about it.

"@madcatladyforever I agree, and I knew it wouldn’t take long before the “must be great to be perfect” posts started 🙄. It’s nothing to do with being perfect, but you don’t let them get to 5 and then start wondering how to sort out shit sleep. There’s way too much fannying around and not enough discipline.

OP, it seems like you are getting your arse kicked by everyone. Your child, your boss... You need to stop worrying about everyone else and toughen up before you fall apart, because then you’ll be no good to anyone."

Absolutely ginger. There is nothing perfect about us. I was a single mum and had to work or we would have lost our home. The benefits office wasn't about to pay my mortgage.
There is no way I could allow my child to dictate terms to me.
He had to fit in with all of my plans and sometimes I had to be a very strict disciplinarian as he could play up big time.
If I had fannied about and alloed him to run amok we'd have lost everything and ended up in a hostel. So I had to be his parent.
It isn't fun or nice being the bad guy but kids need boundaries.

I'm sorry, but she's manipulating you both and calling all the shots.

You have to be strong and show her that she has no option.

I'd speak to the school, tell them the sleep situation - be honest with them. I'd give them a heads up that you are doing sleep training, and that potentially she's going to get a lot more tired during the days until you've cracked it.

Half term is coming up - are you and/or your DH off work? It will probably take more than a week to crack this, tbh, but what about if you start it on Friday, and aim to have it sorted by the end of half term.

Your DH is going to have to put up with the horrendous tantrums, and so are you - let him deal with it, and don't step in.

You will mentally go under if you don't sort this out.

Don't give up your job - you will regret it.

Good luck, OP.

It will pass.
My son was like this. Any new development has his brain ticking over drive. Neals Yard do real chamomile tea without pesticide ask them to mix it with Lemon Balm. The Chamomile soothes the body as an antispasmodic but the lemon balm soothes the mind. Brew 2 teaspoons of each herb in a teapot for 20 mins or so till it’s cool enough to drink but still warm and then give it to her in a ‘special’ cup before bed. We used one of those sucky type Cups that look like a cow as the sucking action stimulates melatonin which is the sleep hormone. May take a few nights to kick in (May work immediately) still works a treat with my son and he is now 12. Also Chamomilla homeopathic remedy when she gets in from school. One at 4pm and then again at 6pm. Honestly! It works! Good luck. ‘This too shall Pass’ x

I had a DD like this and I'm sorry but you need to not give in to her.

You start with a good routine dinner, bath, bed, story and sleep.

If you get up to her once you will do it a hundred times a night for the 1st couple of nights but each time you smile and say: good girl, back to bed. And repeat as many times as necessary.

Don't quit your job but do book a week's annual leave because you will get no sleep for the majority of it. You will think it's never going to work but it will.

It took me 2 weeks to get my DD in a bed time routine but it did work. She was good for 2 weeks then started to play up again so we went straight back to that routine and she got the message.

Don't give up. X

Do you work from home?
Put her in bed and do your work from her bedroom!