Absolutely on my knees and I don’t know what to do

[TooMuchPeppa86]

I don’t even know where to start

I work part time (3 days) in a job that doesn’t really fit into part time hours. I cut my hours because I have two wee girls (5 and 2) who are my whole world and I thought it’s fine it’ll be a few years of working at nights once they’re asleep and then I can increase my hours in the office once they’re at school.

Five year old started school last month. Her sleep is beyond horrific. She has no interest in sleep she won’t even try. But I need to stay in her room or she just kicks off. Last night it was 11pm before she went to sleep. I then had to work until 3am to stay afloat.

I can’t do this any more. I can’t. The first thought I had when I woke up this morning was sheer panic about how behind I am at work because I can’t fit it all in.

She won’t have DH. He does the housework at night and keeps that ticking over.

Tough. I guess I would think about having a reboot. Perhaps sitting down with her and DH and discussing the importance of sleep, how you want her to be able to enjoy sleep and ask her for her ideas about how she can relax before bed and get to sleep. So perhaps

• a good run around after school where practical (if not physically tired)
• no screens after x time
• no audio books after y time
• now she is a big girl, at z time she will lie down and try to go to sleep
• rapid return supernanny style consistently after this

Also I think rapid return may take a few days to properly work. You say you haven’t got the time but I don’t think you can afford not to invest this time to get it sorted.

OP what is her sugar intake? Also try not having the tv on an hour before her bedtime, play some 432mhz music from Yotube in the background and just create a very calm environment. No big lights on, no screens, no drinks other than water in the evening.

She may be very sensitive to a slight trigger. You have to take control of your situation and not let it get the better of you. Good luck!

Could she be just playing you?

I only say this because I did this to my dad as a child. My mum went out one night leaving my dad alone with me. He tried forever to get me to sleep, but I kept insisting on more stories, couldn't sleep etc. My mum just laughed when she came back and was like 'you were tricked by a 3 year old'. I was perfectly fine with my mum, but knew I could manipulate my dad. He's too soft.

You need to not be in the house. Put her to bed then go somewhere else to work. Do this for a week and she will quickly settle for dp.

My son is terrible for going to bed also and can seemingly stay awake forever.

I used bribery at that age to get him to stay in bed. I'd say I'd spend ten minutes with him and a book and I'd give him a piece of cheese as long as he stayed in bed. Then I'd say, you can have the light on for ten minutes by yourself to read your book, but only if you stay in bed.

If he got up, no books, no light, no cheese.

I think I'd be sitting down with her and telling her that this needs to stop. She needs her sleep, and you need your down time. If she gets out of bed after her good night kiss and cuddle, she will be returned without being talked to, looked at or interacted except to be taken by the hand and put back into bed. This is not her time. If she goes to sleep and doesn't get up or come out, then she'll get a star on her chart, and a huge big congratulatory kiss and cuddle in the morning. When she has 5 stars, she will get a treat (whatever her currency is).

If she kicks off, then she kicks off.

And stick to it.

In fact, I wonder if it would be best if you didn't interact with her at all when she got up, all she got was DH.

I'd also make it very clear hours in advance exactly what was going to be happening before bedtime. So he'd know the night was winding down and it would be time to stop talking to me at a particular time.

I don’t know why she’d be insecure though. She is an adored child. They both are. They’ve had no issues. Nothing that would give them reason to be insecure without me.

I know school is a big adjustment but she’s made friends incredibly well and absolutely loves to go there.

I’d go down the Supernanny bedtime road.
I’d also be getting your OH to do it.
Go out so she thinks you’re gone then sneak back in to do your work leaving them to settle for dad.
It’s really difficult but you need this sorted before taking the drastic measure of leaving your job.

I had a daughter a bit like this. She wasn’t naughty; she never got up. But she would lie quietly in her bed awake for hours.
If I got in bed with her she’d fall asleep in a couple of minutes, so that’s what we did.
It’s not always a discipline issue.
Would that work for you, OP?

Is she getting enough excercise? After school swimming tended to help mine or take her for walk after tea.

You said she has no SEN you know of - then typically it is a learned behaviour. She knows it's a "game" to her, she knows she can just have you in the room. HAve you ever watched the old Supernanny videos on youtube about putting stubborn older kids to sleep? Consistency is the absolute key, couple with exercise and good routine. It sounds like you've got a great routine going with your other dd! School can be mentally tiring, but not physically - my middle child for example is also totally wired at the end of the day, I try and make her run off her energy before and after school in the play ground, and reduce all stimulation for her before bedtime.
She also used to try to stay up, but you just have to keep at silently putting them back, over and over and over and over if needs be, day after day. I know you said you "don't have the time", but if in the long run she is going to bed on time, won't it be worth it? It took two full weeks to get my middle one to learn there was no fun in not being spoken to and silently put back to bed for an hour or more night after night, but now she mostly goes down fine and as long as she doesn'r have a ton of crap to distract her/play with etc at bedtime it only takes about 10 mins whereas before it was around 2 hours. Seriously, watch some of the supernanny videos if you can for some guidance. Obviously every child is different, but it;s not acceptable she is doing this, and it CAN be changed.

My boss is good but it’s a highly competitive environment and it’s hard to “show weakness” because they expect you to go above and beyond.

Some children are just clingy, OP. DS has been like that since he was a baby.

I am sure some will disagree with me, but I would get tough. You can't go on like this.
I would sit her down and say mummy says need her sleep so she can go to work and buy things. So daddy is going to put you to bed from now on. Then I would buy some ear plugs and go to bed and let daddy deal with - and probably quietly cry as I heard her calling for me.
But when you are this sleep deprived I think any kind of sleep training is very tough to achieve.
It may take 3-4 nights, but she will go to sleep without a fuss.

I lie in bed with her every single night. She will lie there awake and tossing and turning and fidgeting for hours. Like hours. Sorry I havent explained this very well I am all over the place today

My nephew was like this. He had a long walk after dinner. That helped marginally. Then, my sister gave him melatonin. It was the one you stick under your tongue. That worked like a charm. He took it, went to bed right after, and would fall asleep within an hour.

Melatonin supplements and pills didn’t work. Only the one you put under your tongue.

What’s her routine like after school? What is she doing and eating?

I sometimes work on her bedroom floor but that keeps her up and distracts her as well

Some are just much more sensitive and loving than others. It is not a sign of weakness or anything you need to change in her. It could the be the others have been going to nursery from six months old, and are more than used to a school/nursery setting. Don't compare her.

If the sleep issue is sorted out then you won't find the rest of your life so daunting.

You take a week off, either anenual leave or compassionate leave. In that week you and dh tell dd that from now on she has to stay in her bed, and not to move. I gave my dd a kindle with a light and stories to read, she is only five however she might still be able to do this. Every time she gets out of bed, you calmly put her back without a single word. Every time she does it, back in bed. She has a tantrum, you quietly put her back without a word and you keep doing this until she is worn out and falls asleep. She is enjoying the attention and extra Mummy time she has with you until 11pm - who wouldn't? You need to now stop that. Bed time story, cuddles and kisses, a minute or two stroking her hair and settling her down and that is it.

Do not cave in.

She is old enough to stay in her bed, she is old enough to know why sleep is important (make sure you tell her that she won't grow as fast etc etc children like to know the positive benefits of staying in bed and a good nights sleep)

I feel for you OP. It's so difficult.

I wonder will a few weeks of busy school sort her sleep out.
Could it be a case of a sleep abnormality? How does she sleep when she's asleep? Does she snore? Thrash about the bed? Is she tired when she has to be woken for school? Does she sleep in at the weekends?

My own feeling FWIW is that a child, given the proper circumstances (which you are doing) will not deny themselves what's needed for health. So I'm wondering if she has a sleep disorder. Much under-diagnosed. Worth a chat with your GP, as long as your GP is aware of sleep disorders in kids. Does any of this ring true?

Chronic lack of sleep is horrific in a house/relationship/family.

It depends what day it is. If she’s at after school club (on my working days) she gets home at six and has a quick tea, bath/ play around with sister and bed. We don’t do puddings after tea or anything I try to keep her sugar low.

Its taking a huge toll on our marriage. The stress makes us fall out

OMG love the cheese thing! Why did I never think of that when DD was small?