Absolutely on my knees and I don’t know what to do

[TooMuchPeppa86]

I don’t even know where to start

I work part time (3 days) in a job that doesn’t really fit into part time hours. I cut my hours because I have two wee girls (5 and 2) who are my whole world and I thought it’s fine it’ll be a few years of working at nights once they’re asleep and then I can increase my hours in the office once they’re at school.

Five year old started school last month. Her sleep is beyond horrific. She has no interest in sleep she won’t even try. But I need to stay in her room or she just kicks off. Last night it was 11pm before she went to sleep. I then had to work until 3am to stay afloat.

I can’t do this any more. I can’t. The first thought I had when I woke up this morning was sheer panic about how behind I am at work because I can’t fit it all in.

She won’t have DH. He does the housework at night and keeps that ticking over.

I lie in bed with her every single night.

^

You need to stop this. If she's had this all her life, she's come to expect it.

Either try the tough love or the token thing.

And you can tell her you're knackered, she'll survive. You're a human too, not just a mother.

DS struggled with falling asleep (and still does sometimes) and we used a CD (he's in his twenties now, this was a while ago...) of music designed by a GP where the speed of the music follows the speed of brainwaves slowing down as you fall asleep. He still has it in itunes now. It's called Sound Asleep for Babies. There is also a version for adults.

It's not a magic cure all but it certainly used to make me start to feel drowsy when I put him to bed. Unlike an audiobook, music is less distracting as you are just listening, not thinking about what you are listening too.

My child slept so badly he had to go to the sleep clinic. I was told make sure they are physically worn out and they will sleep better. I got child into multiple sports and was advised to buy a trampoline for the garden. He sleeps a lot better now but I have to take him to do sport every night either swimming 1 hour -100 lengths or 2 hours cricket or 1 hour running and 1 hour karate or 1 hour tennis and 1 hour bike riding. He has actually got very good at sport and competes in aquathlons and triathlons and it has developed his confidence a lot too. Even though we are always rushing around after school I think I would do almost anything to get a good nights sleep for us all. Going to different clubs he has met lots of different children and he has become more independent too.

Sorry to be blunt but I can’t believe you’re being dictated to by a 5 year old! Grow a backbone op.

I've had success with an older child and audio books - but it was better than finding them reading under the overs - but I agree with all the suggestions here that music or gentle podcasts desgined to help promote sleep might be a better idea for you OP.

I am in the same boat with my DD she’s 4 and has been a terrible sleeper and on the go constantly and I like you have tried everything in the book!!! It’s so tough and I’ve asked for advice off HV and GP and they just fob me off or that’s what it feels like. I’ve tried soothing baths, no screen time an hour or more before bed, sleepy dream cream, night lights, books aimed to make children tired, white noise machines urgh the list is endless and absolutely nothing works so i can’t offer any advice but just want to tell you are not a failure and that you’re not alone and that it’s good your OH is trying to help/support you as mine is shit!!!! Xxxxx

Also by staying in her room you are rewarding her for sleeping badly. Bath, bedtime story your dh could read to her Mummy tuck her up with kiss then sleep. For a few night you will need to expect her to kick off but if you are firm and keep putting her back into bed and leaving the room eventually she will realise screaming won't bring you back into room she will stop it. You have allowed her to get into poor routine now will have to be very firm to break the cycle.

Tweetingmagpie
Must be nice to be perfect and if you haven’t got any advice or anything nice to say just don’t say anything at all!

This sounds really really exhausting OP I'm sorry as lack of sleep is the worst thing! I have a three year old and 18 month old and I do know how lack of evening and rest time is so so hard to deal with especially when you are at work as well. To be honest I think there is no perfect way to do it but you do need to change things. There is loads of good advice here all I can say is that it was my choice I would thought. Up. That is what we have done at our home. If our three year old starts coming out of her room or shouting we give a warning and then take things off her. So teddy/cloth/nightlight - once she is calm again she gets them back and goes straight to sleep. It seems mean but I do not want to get into having to lie down with her or waking her sister. When she is having a bad pitch it usually takes two or three nights of the above and then we are through it. So hard for anyone to tell you as each child is different but you said your self that she thinks it's a game so shut it down for your own sanity and to ensure you can do your best with everything else.

What would happen if you let her sleep in your bed let's say during the weekend? Friday night, get her to sleep beside you, have a cuddle, assure her everything is fine.
I know I'm a big softie because we let our DD sleep with us for longer than usual but when the time came for her to go to her own bed, she moved without any issues and sleeps through. The sleep only gets disrupted when times are stressful for her, like for example the beginning of the school year etc. Then it's just an occasional night with us. We know she needs the reassurance, even in her sleep so we just go with it.

She's only just started school. She's probably overtired, strung out and her brain is whirling with all the new information that she is being bombarded with. Give it a couple of weeks if you can before handing in your notice. The calm app is good to download. It has children's sleep stories on. It might help her get off to sleep earlier, or at least allow you to tiptoe out of the room for a bit. Good luck. Sleep deprivation is awful. I get insomnia and have hardly slept for days. Got in laws staying for three weeks and builders in every room of the house from 7.30am onwards everyday. I feel your pain! Even a five min power nap can help if you get the chance. Good luck.

Have you tried a baby gate on her bedroom door with landing light on
No bedroom light or audios
Bath time then put dd2 up to bed come back down and have twenty minutes wind down time reading her stories and cuddling downstairs then up to bed quick kiss and cuddle goodnight and you don't go back unless you hear her out of bed keep putting her in bed and only say it's bed time sweetie or something like that and walk back out closing the gate behind you

Sorry if this is repeating anything but are you working from home on the laptop? Could you take it into her room while she's falling asleep? I'd be tempted to say I have work to do, I am happy to do it in her bedroom while she falls asleep but the work is very important and so is getting lots of sleep, so if she talks or gets up mummy is leaving to work in another room in the house.

I'd sit in the room with the laptop facing away so the light doesn't annoy her and then I'd quietly get on with work.

I'd there any chance that could work? Is it worth a try?

Stop the books and give her quiet.
Stop lying in bed with her.
Get your DH to do bedtimes and go out.
Persevere and don't give up.

Do you think a sleep star chart with a reward (e.g. new toy) for spending a whole week in her bed from 8pm onwards would work? You can tell her she doesn't need to sleep but she needs to be in her bed from bedtime in order to get a sticker?

Can you rationalise with her?
Tell her that her not going to sleep means you can't go to sleep, and if this carries on then you won't be able to go to work anymore because you'll be too tired. Then tell her if you can't go to work anymore then there won't be any money for treats or days out. If she sees that actions have consequences for her then it might just give her a bit of motivation.

OP apologies that I don't have any great advice - but I just want you to know that you are not alone! My DD is quite clingy to me, wants only me (even though her dad is brilliant with her - and we do alternate bedtimes because it can't be me every night), and I too work evenings and when she won't stay in bed I am pulling my hair out! It is one of the most frustrating things I've ever experienced, and it's difficult to retain sanity when it's happening.
Following this thread for advice, and sending you best wishes and hope things get better soon. Your DD could still be adjusting to school, new school year, new teacher etc. Please NEVER think that you've failed her, you sound like a wonderful caring mum x

My advice is to take some time off work to tackle this. Sort out the sleep, then tackle your job. I would call in sick with stress, then try to get a sick note for at least a second week after your 7 days self cert. Then at least you can catch up on the sleep while she's at school. Get Hello Fresh or fill the freezer with stuff you just have to bung in the oven. It won't matter for a couple of weeks. Can you contract out some household stuff? Get a cleaner, ironing service etc.
You need a strategy and you have to stand firm for at least a couple of weeks.
I would sit her down and explain that you can't all go on like this and instead she must be in bed by x time but if she can't sleep it's ok to read a book/do some crayoning in bed. As long as she is quiet and in bed. If she gets up she will have to go back. The only reason for getting up is needing the toilet.
Tell her she's a big girl now and you know she can do it.
For each night she does it she gets a star on the chart and the reward for the first three days is something amazingly awesome that she really wants to do. Then gradually the treats get a bit more down to earth.
She has to accept that sometimes it's you, sometimes daddy. Alternate who puts her back etc.
In my experience, when you hit on the right strategy it doesn't take that long but finding the right one can be tricky.
If you try something like this and after a week it hasn't worked I would consider a sleep consultant.
After a bit of time off to regroup I think you have to decide about work. Explain it's not sustainable what you are doing and have some suggestions on how it can be dealt with.
Could you pass some simpler stuff onto admin staff, drop some of the things you are responsible for? Do a job share?
Something has to give and at this rate it will be you.
I really hope you can get some sleep soon.
Good luck and come back and tell us what happens

It sounds to me like you are pandering far too much to her. I bet a week of going through tantrums and insisting that she gets up at 7am each morning and has an active day without rest would sort this out.

Waking up in the morning panicking about work is STRESS so you wouldn't be lying about being stressed

I think her dad needs to step up to the plate here.

No DD, mummy is working, back to bed.
No you can’t have mummy, mummy put you bed and read a story but she’s working now.

He needs to learn how to settle her (whether it’s by the tough love, super nanny or the token route is up to you) but I think he really need to take a bit more responsibility. He might do a lot of the housework but he’s not considering quitting his job because he’s on his knees with exhaustion.

My personal suggestion is rapid return (from dad) but then none of mine behaved like this, and I would probably have taken a harder line at 5 as well.

A PP linked Supernanny videos which first came to my mind when I read the thread. They'd probably be a good place to start.

I think at this point OP, you need to pick 3 days where you and DH can focus on her sleep and nothing else. If she has school, I'd probably say Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Or perhaps half term if you want longer to do it for. It will be tough, but 3 nights of hell is nothing compared to months and months of you all not sleeping.

If it was my child (ofc you might have done these things), I'd start the day at 7am. She goes to school, comes home. I'd probably take her to a park or something to burn off any extra energy she has. Start bedtime routine at 5. Tea, playtime, bath, book, bed. Dark room with a small nightlight. White noise on. Explain to her nicely that she is a big girl now and big girls sleep in their own beds. Explain that you'll be in the house nearby, but she must go to sleep (hopefully from a busy day she'll be very tired anyway). If she comes out, explain one more time that it's bedtime and she has to go to sleep. Then every time she comes out, no eye contact and no words, into her bed. And literally keep doing this all night until she gives in. Both you and DH because she needs to learn that you both will be putting her to bed. Repeat Saturday night. Repeat Sunday night. By Monday night she'll hopefully have realised you mean business and it's pointless, so won't protest too much, and eventually, won't protest much at all.

I'd make plan with dh. Sot her down and explain daddy is going to put her to bed, do sticker chart then I would go out to coffee shop to work. Try it for couple of weeks

i swear by lavender...a few drops in the bath and Asda little angels bedtime massage mist.

I have been where you are, this does help

good luck

I suspect you are doing everything too early re: the routine.

How about dinner, play time (maybe a board game or something where she gets time with you), then bath, then story and then bed at maybe 9pm.

She's clearly not tired at the time you put her to bed so maybe different bed times for your DDs and a bit more play time.

Alternative is to go to work during the day and get a childminder or nursery for wrap around childcare.