To not understand women who go with married men?

[Pennypringles]

I know I'm old fashioned and have a really strong moral compass but I just don't understand it!
Obviously I know it takes two to tango and all that but I would never go with someone's husband however much "his wife doesn't understand him".

How about the phrase, 'My relationship. My rules.'

FunderAnna

If someone decides to accept that their morals don’t factor anything in them aside from themselves despite putting others in pain, then in all honesty they should also accept becoming society rejects and being judged as immoral. They can live with that can’t they ?

I have a friend who enjoys a MM quite often. I don’t really judge her but I do often wonder about her self esteem. She seems to revel in the fact that they prefer her over their wife. I think sometimes women are attracted to the fact it is casual and won’t be going anywhere but others like my friend always think they’ll leave and they never ever do

I find it really weird that morality - which is a complicated thing - is basically reduced to whether or not you're married to the person you're shagging.

If we get back to Old Testament basics the rules are these

• Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

• Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

• Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

• And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

• Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

• Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

• Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

• Thou shalt not kill.

• Thou shalt not commit adultery.

• Thou shalt not steal.

• Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

• Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

I shall assume that everyone who is focused on adultery (aka 'cheating') has got the other nine commandments sussed.

NB The fact that adultery is not at the top of the list may mean it's not actually the most important one.

For the really moral there are lots of other rules in the Books of Laws including a prohibition against mixed fibres....

FunderAnna

So, commandments have mentioned adultery which applies to the cheating partner, and OM which applies to cheating with your neighbours wife.

There you go, point proven. Both to blame.

Order isn’t necessary.

Morals aren’t only based around religion though.. I don’t follow the Ten Commandments but since you brought them up, you sound like you take them as the basis of morality.

I’m not Christian for the record

I think morality is tied up with religion.

A more secular word would be ethical. So we could debate the ethical issues involved in relationships between people where one of them might be committed to someone else.

But 'ethics' is a less loaded/judgemental world. (Values would be an alternative.) Mumsnetters seem to prefer morality because there's a stronger implication that they are virtuous and superior.

I don't get it either OP. Very strong morals, old fashioned.

Oddly enough I do have a religious background.

It's left me with a sense that we are all sinners in that we are always falling short in some way. But that we're also still worthy, fit to be the recipients and givers of love.

It also gives me a sense that there are many dimensions to living in a way that's right. I don't always try to spell them out. But I suppose that I think we should be good Samaritans - that isn't all about the family and a narrow set of duties. New Testament teaching is not particularly about being 'Martha' - it's about responding to the call to live a life that's beyond the safe confines of the home. Even if that call takes to us new and uncomfortable places.

Mumsnetters seem to prefer morality because there's a stronger implication that they are virtuous and superior.

Actually morals are there to ensure people treat each other fairly and as equals.

Ethics is a way to derive a system to base those morals on. Whether religion or philosophy or culture...

What ethical system do you follow which deems it moral to be knowingly an OW with all the implications?

Perhaps that would help us understand the diversity in opinion here and know what to expect.

FunderAnna
We certainly are all sinners and that’s human nature..

But at least own the sin and realise that you are sinning.. and not dress it up as a moral thing

since we're talking about christianity and sinning.

@CurlyhairedAssassin I obviously try to avoid people whose behavior offends me but I don't dictate to others around me that their perception be the same as mine. THAT was my point.

''we may not use theological words today... but in the spirit in which we interpret failings of character and respond to people less nobler sides , we tend to retain a damning and ungenerous set of attitudes. We may feel that through our harshness we're helping humanity to improve! But if this is really our goal then it pays to move beyond mere condemnation in an attempt to understand what truly drives people in their more regrettable moments. We stand to stumble on a surprising truth. Behaviour we call sinful is never simply that. It represents an unfortunate first response to difficulty and distress that could if it were properly understood, guided and forgiven towards nobler ends.'''

This is so true and stands for ungenerous attitudes or infidelities.
I like the way Alain de Botton explains the feeling/need behind each ''sin''.

It seems to me that people react in a hugely personal way to stories involving extramarital sex. They imagine how they would feel if it happened to them. Painful memories may be evoked.

It seems to me that many of younger generation has much stronger feelings about monogamy then the circles. We didn't believe in marriage - where men owned women. We were going to be more free.

And I think this has left me with a feeling that we do not own or possess one another. Women here are rightly annoyed if partners try to control where they do and who they see. So why do we think that we have the right to control their feelings and their actions? I'm not saying that infidelity doesn't cause pain, or that people should not attempt to be considerate and kind towards each other. I'm just saying that unhappiness also comes from trying to possess our partners.

I also think that 'true' morality must include a wider consideration of the pain we inflict on others. Just because that pain is of an indirect nature, doesn't absolve us from responsibility. The ways in which our actions pollute the planet, deplete its resources. Our purchases may involve the exploitation of vulnerable groups - including child labour.

Just saying, 'Well I never actually shagged anyone else after getting married' doesn't seem to be quite enough to qualify for sainthood...

I’m not interested in a relationship. Occasionally I’m interested in sex. All I want is for a man to come round, get it up, stick it in, maybe hang around afterwards for a quick cup of tea then fuck off and not contact me for a few weeks. A married man is perfect for this.”

Perhaps a single friend with benefits/fuck buddy would be even more perfect? Why not choose someone who is freely available, just wants sex, and isn’t interested in a relationship?

Probably because after a certain ages, there aren’t that many single men available for a quick no tie fuck

This is not a site just for married women btw it's for women who may be single or gay too

(and of course parents who may even male)

If someone decides to accept that their morals don’t factor anything in them aside from themselves despite putting others in pain, then in all honesty they should also accept becoming society rejects and being judged as immoral. They can live with that can’t they ?

Like you judge people committing driving offences which have the potential to put people in (literal) pain..,

@FunderAnna - it’s not even adultery, is it, if the woman fucking the married man is single !

Eating meat undoubtedly causes pain to other beings. More broadly eating animal products also means that animals undergo painful experiences.

So one would hope that everyone who feels strongly about the pain caused by extra-marital relationships is a committed vegan...

"I just don't understand why a woman would do that to another woman."

Because women don't owe other women anything, especially just because they're women. We're not a collective vagina (vagine?) 🙄 or automatically looking out for eachother simply because we're XX.

Such a weird view to have OP.

@FunderAnna exactly good point. My carbon footprint could be smaller but I am a pescatarian who has never knowingly slept with a MM. Is there a hierarchy! Where do I fall? 🤪

FunderAnna

So what ethical system is it that you follow? You sent the Ten Commandments and seem to value them..

So based on that ethical system what you are doing is immoral.

What ethical system deems it neutral to be non empathic about sleeping with a married man knowingly? M

Just out of curiousity.

I am only resolved to act in that manner, which will, in my own opinion, constitute my happiness, without reference to you, or to any person so wholly unconnected with me.

FunderAnna
Is that an acknowledged ethical system?

You are saying there is no need for morals in this world.

Didn’t criminals in prisons follow the same philosophy?

Where does it become not OK to be self centred ?!

Most people like the idea ‘do to others as you’d have done to you’ - it seems sensible and not overly complicated or worthy ....just decent.

It’s easier to do to others you know, what you’d like done to yourself. Fewer people perhaps would cheat with a friends husband or wife......but we know it’s pretty common.

In the end, I conclude people do it because they are selfish and only interested in themselves and not bothered at all about impacts on others. It’s pretty simple.

And I do think human nature is selfish. Most of us get it under control to a degree and limit our selfish behaviours although we don’t eradicate them altogether. Some people have less enthusiasm to limit their selfishness or indulge it. Some will name it for what it is and not dress it up as anything else. Other people do selfish things like being either partner involved in an affair, and say it’s not selfish.

Humans are selfish and this is one manifestation of it. It’s one many humans particularly dislike, when they might tolerate or even justify other selfishness. It’s impact is often far reaching and long lasting and impacts adults and children. It’s why it doesn’t sit easy with many, but many others simply don’t care because they are only interested in themselves.

@barryfromclareisfit what about just an allegiance to yourself and other humans then? Whilst undoubtedly a married man is breaking the intimate rules of monogamy but of course the person women/man/whoever engaging in the affair too has a human responsability. I've done it and I regret it deeply. I see it now as a form of stealing. I would never steal I thought but I meddled and stole from someone's life. She suffered as a result of a situation I was part of, of course I'm accountable. It was 15 years ago and I now feel a sense of shame about it, everyone who does it should. As for yourself engaging with someone who is part of such ugly duplicity is bad for anyone, if we do that to ourselves it's an act of self hatred not power.