To think a lot of men don’t initially want second families?

[Menandsecondfamilies]

I’ve been wondering this for a while. Dh came in last night from seeing his oldest friend and frustratedly said ‘well that’s it, he’s giving in too!’ His friend is divorced with two children, started a new relationship with a woman and was super clear he wasn’t not interested in having any more so she needed to be ok with that. She agreed that it was fine. Since they married (again after much pushing from her) she has done nothing but vocalise her desperate need for her own children and a wish for their ‘own little family’. Friend has refused to ttc...until now. He’s told dh he feels complete with his existing dc and is only doing this for her (weak, cowardly, and plain wrong on lots of levels I know).

Thing is, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard this...probably not even the tenth. Dh’s brother did the same. Confessed to us he never wanted more children after his two with his ex, but knew his second wife would leave him if he didn’t have a baby with her.

I’ve known men at work openly discussing how they feel emotionally, financially and physically complete with their families and then sheepishly tell us when the next woman is pregnant.

My own closest male friend said he feels guilty every day for willingly having more children when in his mind, he doesn’t see his first enough, and now can’t contribute as much to their keep as he has extra responsibilities.

Is this just in my circle? I don’t know if all men have the same biological urges as women in terms of wanting a child with a partner to bond them, or desiring a set number of children etc.

Before I get flamed (which is probably inevitable anyway) I know not ALL men have second (or third or fourth) families out of duress!

Perhaps it depends on the age they were when they first had children?

If they were fairly young (which my partner was) and have been split up quite a while then I think it’s fairly common for them to be happy to have another child or a “second family”

My partner had first lot of children very young so by the time he was into his mid 30s he knew he wanted to have the family life he hadn’t really experienced with first lot (lots of contact but it is not the same as having 24hr family life)

If the guy was in his 30s when first lot came along and is now towards 40s/50s then no I think they probably for the most part don’t want to do it all again.

But I don’t think you can generalise, it’s very common for both men and women to have second families. My feeling is that it’s more common when they start early, but that’s just anecdotal

"I wouldnt date a man with children. It would be better for young women not to get in relationships with men who've already abandoned one family."

THIS.

Also, how do the first children feel?

"Abandoned one family"

for god sake why the dramatic language?

And I speak of someone who's first husband left, I don't class it as "abandonment", we weren't happy, we are both way happier now with new people. Sometimes, for lots of reasons, relationships don't work out (and the child I have with him is happy and well adjusted, exH remarried, had more dc, as did I, and we all get on, like adults.)

My DH probably initially didn't want a "second family" as he already had a teenager. I didn't want to have children either but as the relationship got serious I changed my mind.
When it happened I clearly told him that I want children and if he doesn't we should split up. I was in my early 30s so really no suprise there..
He said he wanted to be with me and if I wanted a family so did he..
I definitely didn't "force" him and hooking up with a youngish childless women is a good indicator she will likely want children at some point. More so if she accepted step children!

@holidayhelpppp " I genuinely want to know why OP is so bothered what her friends do?"

• why are you bothered???

I am bothered because I need to state conflicting interests. My Ex is dating a much younger woman who wants children, and I have to admit I am rather upset about this.

Yes it is none of my business. But it just happens to be part of the Gift that Keeps on Giving where my children are supplanted (attention, family structure, inheritance) by a stranger when once they were part of a normal family and this sh* never, ever, ever crossed anyone's minds.

My mind says let go, its life
My heart hurts

screaming are you saying your children have been replaced with your ex's new partner?

they are still part of a "normal family" its really offensive to everyone in blended / single parent / whatever other set up families to label them as not normal.

You seem very bitter about this, you're right, you do need to let it go.

@holidayhelppp no, that is what YOU have decided I said.

Yup, I am finding you as irritating as @RhinoskinhaveI did.

Let me let you in to some EQ: there is logic, and then there are feelings.

Feeling sad about losing your family and having your family unnecessarily complicated because of the selfish and damaging behaviour of someone who could have chosen to behave differently?

Is actually quite normal. You FEEL them. That's it.

ACTING on those feelings (drama) is weird and dysfunctional. HAVING the feelings is normal.

Hope you enjoyed your EQ lesson, and it helps you be a little less rigid and more empathetic in future.

I think this thread is quite women hating / blaming, not nice at all

Absolutely agree. Most directed at the second wife/younger model/new girlfriend after the husband obviously abandoned his first family/fucked them over etc etc.

I'm DHs first wife but he had kids already so I'm sure I count as 'second' on MN.

Funnily enough, out of the experience I have with divorce it was the women who left and fucked over their husbands. My mum left and had an affair, as did my auntie too.

Me and DH are TTC and I'm fairly certain I haven't forced him into anything. That's not to say that if he weren't with me, I think he'd be out there desperately searching for another woman to have a baby with because he wants one so badly. He probably wouldnt, if we'd never met he probably wouldn't have wanted or had another child but then to be honest, I agree with a lot of PP saying that I don't think men are all that bothered either way, even when they were having their 'first families'.

but you actually said

where my children are supplanted (attention, family structure, inheritance) by a strange and then once they were part of a normal family

so you did say exactly that, didn't you?

of course its totally normal to feel sad about losing your family. I don't know who you're accusing of being selfish and damaging so I cant possibly comment on that because I don't know what happened.

Im not saying its not normal to feel this way, of course it is, but being bitter about it and saying your children no longer have a "normal family" isn't going to help you, or them.

Of course if a first wife wanted to go on and have a 'second family' with someone else, everyone would be nothing but supportive.

This is what people with no EQ do:

I am feeling trapped and depressed. Solution: blame your wife and fuck your co worker. Result: trash your family which you didn't really want, but not have the EQ skills to repair what you did.

What people with EQ do:

I am feeling trapped and depressed. Solution: go into therapy, and face letting go of dreams unfulfilled, and getting old. Result: acceptance, contentment, no trail of destruction.

See how much better EQ is????

"Im not saying its not normal to feel this way, of course it is, but being bitter about it and saying your children no longer have a "normal family" isn't going to help you, or them."

Oh, FFS! I am talking about my FEELINGS. My private internal state of being. Who told you I ACT on them? Who told you I SAY anything?

Please stop pontificating.

screaming you literally just said your children did have a normal family.

I haven't once said you're going to "act on it" whatever you mean by that.

I meant you said it on here, not that you repeat it to your children every night.

Calm down....

Holiday you have behaved very strangely on this thread and seem to struggle with the concept that if someone’s dh leaves them for a younger woman and starts a new family that is very hard to deal with and upsetting. Not all second marriages are this scenario of course but screamings is as were the men my dh met and I have quite a few clients in this situation too it is a well trodden path.

how have I behaved strangely? by having a different opinion than your, rather judgemental one?

I completely understand its hard when your marriage breaks down under any circumstances.

I haven't denied its a well trodden path, marriages break down and people find new partners, and yes, a lot of men will find a partner younger than them.

the problem I have is the negativity directed towards the new woman, the "younger model" etc etc, and all the "shes forcing him into it" language.

It seems strange to me, to completely disbelieve that a man can a) change his mind, or feel differently when he meets a new partner or b)make his own decisions and choose to walk away if he really doesn't want more children

You are very aggressive and quick to accuse people of things they have not said. It is coming across as a little strange.

accuse people of things they haven't said? please elaborate?

you keep calling me "strange" but im not sure what you're trying to achieve by this? People don't all share your opinion on everything, that's not "strange"

@ScreamingLadySutch
I think what you are describing sounds very hard, and I think you are completely justified to feel the way you do.
Hope things work out for you and your children. Take heart.

The womengets the blame as most men wouldn’t bother having any children if it was not for the women wanting them.

As seen so often as well once new children come along the older ones are pushed out even further than already not really fitting into the new nrp house.

At the end of the day it’s the children who suffer, many second families step parents will claim theirs works perfectly but time and time again step children who are now adults come on here and say they hated it but the parents would say it worked and they would never blend due to childhood experience.

If adults both male and female put existing children’s feelings first a lot of parents together or separated wouldn’t have more. However the adults want or need always comes first in blended family situations.

Before I get jumped on. I’ve got no skin in this argument anyway. Just why I presume it’s the women who gets the blame.

OneForMeToo

It's not the job of a childless person in a relationship with someone with kids to sacrifice having their own children so the older ones don't have to deal with the (questionable) hardship of having siblings though. If he thinks his kids would be impacted negatively by him having more then it's on him to put his foot down, not her to consider that her main priority.

not her to consider that her main priority

It's Mumsnet. Step mothers have to consider everyone but themselves a priority.

SoBloodySleep

Haha you're quite right, my mistake 😂

I never said it’s up to her. It’s 100% on the one who already has children. Men are idiots though which is something I’m sure most of us can agree on

Not in our case. We're expecting our first together. His exW urged him to have the snip and he always refused, apparently he always knew he wanted more DC but not with her (they separated months after that realisation).