To think a lot of men don’t initially want second families?

[Menandsecondfamilies]

I’ve been wondering this for a while. Dh came in last night from seeing his oldest friend and frustratedly said ‘well that’s it, he’s giving in too!’ His friend is divorced with two children, started a new relationship with a woman and was super clear he wasn’t not interested in having any more so she needed to be ok with that. She agreed that it was fine. Since they married (again after much pushing from her) she has done nothing but vocalise her desperate need for her own children and a wish for their ‘own little family’. Friend has refused to ttc...until now. He’s told dh he feels complete with his existing dc and is only doing this for her (weak, cowardly, and plain wrong on lots of levels I know).

Thing is, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard this...probably not even the tenth. Dh’s brother did the same. Confessed to us he never wanted more children after his two with his ex, but knew his second wife would leave him if he didn’t have a baby with her.

I’ve known men at work openly discussing how they feel emotionally, financially and physically complete with their families and then sheepishly tell us when the next woman is pregnant.

My own closest male friend said he feels guilty every day for willingly having more children when in his mind, he doesn’t see his first enough, and now can’t contribute as much to their keep as he has extra responsibilities.

Is this just in my circle? I don’t know if all men have the same biological urges as women in terms of wanting a child with a partner to bond them, or desiring a set number of children etc.

Before I get flamed (which is probably inevitable anyway) I know not ALL men have second (or third or fourth) families out of duress!

I think that if a man is up front from the beginning that they don’t want children then it is down to the woman to accept that or to move on. NOt to then expect to be able to change his mind somewhere down the track

well yes, but its whether the man actually does say no from the beginning, isn't it? I think you get a lot of "maybes" and "we'll see" and "not yets" in this scenario just like you do with some men and marriage.

I also think, that if the woman stays with him, even if he's been up front from the start, and say 2 years down the line says to him " you know what I really want to have a baby if you say no Its a deal breaker" and he goes "oh ok then" simply because he doesn't want to lose his wife IT IS STILL ON HIM. He is still capable of saying no and walking away.
Its still him changing his mind, going back on his decision.

The above post reads like it is on the woman to walk away, a man can decide that actually if he doesn't want any more children, he can leave.

The thing is though, what is the massive issue with men (or women) having second families?

I don't think the existence of the second family is the problem its how its managed.

Not so for me - we both wanted to have a baby but my partner was the one who brought it up. He'd always wanted to be a dad hence why he made the terrible mistake of having one too soon with entirely the wrong person (meaning he now has to watch as his son is raised in pretty much the opposite way to how he would like in almost every respect, and can only make so much difference during his time with him). It's only natural that someone who had always wanted a dad would want to have that experience in a conflict free environment where you aren't at odds with the other parent, not to mention actually get to see the kid most of the time. So no, anecdotally I don't think this is the case.

But of those who do think this way, they should just stay single. I think it's an absolute joke to expect your new partner to be maternal enough to help you raise your children, but not maternal enough to ever want her own, and be absolutely fine with you saying you feel "complete" with the family you have that doesn't include her. A bit different if you never really wanted the first ones anyway so don't want any more, but if children and family are important to you yet you're openly not bothered about sharing them with your partner because you feel content with having done that with somebody else... you're a pretty shit partner. You're only interested in what is by your own admission important to your idea of family.

These people need to be upfront about not wanting kids and have enough of a backbone to walk away unless the other person is sure they don't too, most often people that also already have them. And if they can't find the frankly unlikely entity of a person that 100% doesn't want to have children but is also for some reason perfectly happy to dedicate a huge amount of time and energy to dealing with all that comes along with having step children, then they will have to stay single. And understand that they are the ones who are being awkward, not the new partner who has the perfectly natural desire to have their own children with their supposed life partner.

My friends on the dating scene currently and doesn’t want children and has taken steps to ensure it won’t happen.

Every single man she’s dated so far has started off with yes I don’t want any(more) kids either and then moved on to wanting one together!

I think men want dc as a way of ensuring their partner is bound to them.

There is no way I would have another child, I have been pressured recently to take on my sisters new baby (that’s how I ended up becoming a parent a few years ago), no thanks, one is more than enough.

I say I wouldn’t date someone with children, but unless you meet someone you really click with who does have them, then it’s hard to really say yes or no. As it stands my son already loses some time with me if I’m with my boyfriend, but if he had a child then eventually my son would also lose time to that child as well.

Thankfully not many people I would date have children and I would never be able to get anyone pregnant, so it is a nice worry not to have.

I don’t think anyone is necessarily being pushed into anything.

Most likely is that when the idea of a hypothetical extra child is floated they’re not interested. However when they meet someone they love and realise that sharing a family would make them both happy they change their minds.

DP has 2 DCs and I have 3, so we both know we have plenty of children between us already. It doesn’t stop me feeling a bit sad that we’ll never have one together.

When we first met he was adamant he wouldn’t want any more as it would be hard for his DCs to be away from him 50% of the time while a new baby would (if we moved in together!) be with him 100%.

For me I guess it wouldn’t be such a compromise because my DCs were only away once a week and although it would be an adjustment for them too, it wouldn’t be as bad, so it would be an easier decision for me to make. Had I met someone who was open to more children I may well have had them.

I’m sure many people think a relationship, however committed, is not a real proper relationship until and unless it has produced a child.

IF a man, any man, with children or not, marries a woman of child bearing age he is an idiot to think she will never ever want a child of her own. Even if she is adamant at some point she doesn’t want children.
You are making your issue sound like you think the problem lies with the woman for “nagging” men into having a baby. For that YABU.

IF a man, any man, with children or not, marries a woman of child bearing age he is an idiot to think she will never ever want a child of her own. Even if she is adamant at some point she doesn’t want children.

This sounds like a variant of “you’ll change your mind” patronisingly said to women who don’t want children. Some women don’t change their minds, you know.

"I think men want dc as a way of ensuring their partner is bound to them."

I totally agree with that, especially in the case of older man/younger partner.

They don't want the physical work, mind.

I know men who, if the choice was theirs, or they had to take more of a part, don't want all the children that they have with their wives. I've known that as the reason why they've split. It was either a secret vasectomy or split.

But tje pne thi g i have learnt is that a lot men like to play the victim and make out that they are put upon.

I'll be honest, after hearing what so many exs say about previous wives/girlfriends, I'm very sceptical.

SerenDippitty, but a lot of those women who don't want children, also don't want to be Stepmothers.

@Menandsecondfamilies
I find it bizarre that your dh is frustrated himself by this. He comes home "frustrated" because his best mate has decided to have a child. This keeps happening to your acquaintances? You both sound a bit over invested in other people's affairs. My dh couldn't give a fuck what family planning his mates are up to. Men are sentient beings who can decide whether to have more children or not. You have a very peculiar view of this, you make them sound like animals who are being impregnate against their will.

I think men want dc as a way of ensuring their partner is bound to them

I think this applies to some women too...

I think that if a man is up front from the beginning that they don’t want children then it is down to the woman to accept that or to move on. NOt to then expect to be able to change his mind somewhere down the track

I agree with this. My DP has 2 DC with his ExW but I made it clear from the start that I wanted DC of my own one day. Had he said no, I wouldn't have continued the relationship.
He did have second thoughts a year or so later, and I felt bad saying I wouldn't stay in the relationship if he didn't want more DC, it felt a little like emotional blackmail, but I had been clear from the start.

But I also didn't want DC with someone who didn't want them, as that isn't fair on anyone.

4 years down the line and I'm now 8 months pregnant and DP and DSC are really excited.

I did some OLD (already had 1 small DC) and was constantly surprised the number of men who tried to fudge the issue of more (or any) children. I was really straight up that my ideal would be to have another and several men wanted to keep me dangling (aged mid 30s), not being honest or even expected me to change my mind when they were eventually honest. It wasn't totally out of the question that I would change my mind and be happy with one for the right man (especially if he already had children) and obviously I may not have met anyone the right potential father anyway, but it was incredibly frustrating that they wanted to make that choice for me. So it's not always "poor honest man, pushy second wife"!

I think it’s true. Dh joined a cycling club quite a few of the 50 something men had binned first families and teen kids for sexy thirty somethings and were bemoaning the constant pressure from new wives to have their own kids. Dc horrified at the idea of going through the baby toddler years again! We both thought it serves them right tbh.

It’s the plot of the film It’s Complicated

The thread has a really horrible undertone, with "younger models", and "it serves them right", etc.

I only know 3 blended families really well - in each case the man felt that he had his first family too young (two families began by contraceptive failures and then didn't want a big age gap so had more DC) and felt they wanted to have children the second time round as they had matured and it was the right time for them.

I've never been married, have DD, when I met DP (no children) I was clear that I would not have any more DC and if wanted any we should separate. He has tried to persuade me over the years to have a child but he has now accepted that it will not happen. DD (ASD) would not cope with a sibling and she is my priority. So my limited experience is the opposite of yours.

@lululup dh isn’t frustrated his mate is ttc (or rather, his wife is). He’s frustrated his mate is a weak wimp who hasn’t stuck to his principles and chosen a partner with more compatible life goals.

DH and I both have three children each from 2 relationships, so 6.

We were adamant we did not want more together.

You sound like you don’t like the wife much as it’s hardly going to affect your life is it and it’s natural for her to want her own child.

or rather, his wife is

Why do you feel the need to keep having sly digs at the wife?

Does she know how you feel about her?

The serves them right undertone is in respect of wealthy men who bin their same age 50 something wife for a sexier younger woman. Leaving first family devastated. So yes in those circumstances I don’t particularly care if the mans life doesn’t turn out exactly as he wants and he has to get back to sleepless nights and toddlers. Cry me a river.

Ah yes nothing like some massive generalisation on a tuesday night

Not all of course but dh met 3 recently at his cycling club. It’s a thing in that demographic

If men will look for new partners who are younger and have no children yet it shouldn’t be a surprise that many of these women do want children at some point.
If they truly don’t want more children why are they not dating older women who already have kids or are too old to have them?

Is it because all cyclists are knob heads?

See, its not nice to generalise is it?

I was very very vocal from the off that I didn't want any more DC. New partner said he really didn't want more, but talking hypothetically could go to having another if he met the right person who really wanted DC. Happily, further down the line, I hope we are the right people for each other and are very happy with our mix of DC and equally value free time together. Both our ex's went on to have other DC with new partners, I believe both accidental pregnancies, and we both see the complications that arise from having 2nd families (not saying it's the same for everyone! My bf is happily in a 2nd family situation that is fantastic for her) but it's definitely not something we would like to do. In fact, I have a recurring dream that I'm pregnant and tell people and reason that I'll cope and then it suddenly turns into a nightmare when I realise it's not what I want and I start thinking of all these implications in my dream! I literally wake up in a cold sweat from it!