To think a lot of men don’t initially want second families?

[Menandsecondfamilies]

I’ve been wondering this for a while. Dh came in last night from seeing his oldest friend and frustratedly said ‘well that’s it, he’s giving in too!’ His friend is divorced with two children, started a new relationship with a woman and was super clear he wasn’t not interested in having any more so she needed to be ok with that. She agreed that it was fine. Since they married (again after much pushing from her) she has done nothing but vocalise her desperate need for her own children and a wish for their ‘own little family’. Friend has refused to ttc...until now. He’s told dh he feels complete with his existing dc and is only doing this for her (weak, cowardly, and plain wrong on lots of levels I know).

Thing is, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard this...probably not even the tenth. Dh’s brother did the same. Confessed to us he never wanted more children after his two with his ex, but knew his second wife would leave him if he didn’t have a baby with her.

I’ve known men at work openly discussing how they feel emotionally, financially and physically complete with their families and then sheepishly tell us when the next woman is pregnant.

My own closest male friend said he feels guilty every day for willingly having more children when in his mind, he doesn’t see his first enough, and now can’t contribute as much to their keep as he has extra responsibilities.

Is this just in my circle? I don’t know if all men have the same biological urges as women in terms of wanting a child with a partner to bond them, or desiring a set number of children etc.

Before I get flamed (which is probably inevitable anyway) I know not ALL men have second (or third or fourth) families out of duress!

I agree with the poster who said that it’s likely that most men content with their second family probably didn’t want their first family but were maybe too young/naive/clumsy with contraception or felt pressurised by their partner at the time.

It always amazes me how willing second wives are to have children with their husbands.

Assuming that divorce patterns for the UK are similar to the US* where 50% of first marriages breakdown, 67% of second, and 74% of third and subsequent, they’re far more like to go through a divorce than a couple where both have never been married before.

*I can’t find accurate data for the UK, but divorce rates seems to be 42% of marriages.

And that will be his choice won’t it? He’s old enough to have adult children, he knows how babies are made. Why isn’t he getting a vasectomy if he’s so sure?

He might be worried he’ll lose his fiancée if he does.

I think a lot of men are easily swayed if it means the woman staying with him. I think many women feel that a baby cements a relationship. I also think that as men are usually the NRP it is easier for them to compartmentalize the non resident children into weekend 'guests' or maybe that was just my DF and have more dc.

My DH has had the snip. We have joked that our respective premiums on the dating market have reduced since we had children so we are definitely better off sticking together. I would inevitably be the resident parent of young children and he would have them encroaching on his weekend and finances, plus his infertility means he wouldn’t be a viable option for a young pretty thing who wants a family of her own. He would be squarely looking at the separated and with kids of her own market, children he would perhaps have to live with in the long term. Obviously this is said in jest and if you are in an unhappy or dysfunctional relationship then the payoffs change, but it is a fair reflection of the position and why many men are willing to go ahead and have more children. They are basically just being selfish not selfless!

I think the top reason men have children at all is that they're with women that want them.

I can totally understand that if you've had a relationship implode because the woman wanted kids, you might be more amenable to acquiescing if you meet someone else and want to avoid the relationship going the same way.

It's not a great reason to have kids, but more women want them than not.

I am the opposite way round. Had 2 kids when I met my child free partner. Told him I didn't want kids. He said he did, I came round to the idea and now he's changed his mind!!
We're now married, together 7 years and my kids are teenagers with one sitting GCSEs this year so I would be nuts to have more when we're just about to hit the stupidly expensive stage of kids (cars, uni, deposits to move out)
People change their mind, for me it's knowing its now or never and im not ashamed to admit my biggest fear is him going off and having a baby with someone else

I think it's more likely that men who don't want children are more likely to give in than women who don't want children.

I told my now dh that if he’d had kids when we’d met, I wouldn’t have started dating him. Just not for me.

From my experience the men don't want their first family. They prefer the new family as they have learnt from their mistakes.

My opinion is and this is going to sound harsh, all men should have the snip after 2 children. 2nd and 3rd families are so complicated. Women stop producing from late 40’s. The world would be a better place better for the environment and better for the children.

My husband and I are very happy with our two girls. We didn't want more and discussed the snip, he was nervous and said "what if something did happen between us and I ended up with a younger woman who wanted kids?" I said "do you want more kids? Because I definitely dont but if you think you might then dont have the snip" he was adamant he didn't want more ever but was worried hed never find someone else if the worst happened between us. He went for the snip in the end, hopefully we'll never split and if we did hopefully he'll find someone to be a good step mother to ours rather then pressuring for more

I think a lot of men don’t want first families.

^this. I always think of this when reading posts about how SAHM have enabled their husbands career by staying at home to raise their kids (usually the thread is about inequity). It crosses my mind that with most couples I know (bar one for certain) it's the woman who wanted the kids more than the man. I do think this is where some of the issues arise - man tends to think "well you wanted them..." so leaves the lions share of child rearing to the woman.

Not rtft

Having children is way more demanding on the woman than the man, pregnancy childbirth etc

I'm surprised that more women are keen to start the whole thing off again than men.

Or is this about where a man who already has kids gets with a woman who doesn't... Which is a totally different situation.

I think most men tell their partners whatever they want to hear tbh

Prettypumpkin, the implication of what he says is that the potential to father children is a bargaining chip that he can use to obtain a new partner.
He doesn't really want more children but he wants to be able to pretend that he's willing if necessary to obtain a new partner.

This tends to be because women without kids are often seen as better dating prospects than women with kids, often even by men with kids. When dating turns to something more serious it’s only natural for these women to ask for kids if they want them

So men want women without kids because they haven't got kids and then want them to never have kids even though the man has kids

Um

Cake and eat springs to mind

I know of a situation where a woman with children from a first relationship entered into a relationship with a childless man, she was completely upfront about not wanting any more children and he just went along with this and she was sterilised.
It later transpired that he had assumed he would be able to persuade her to have a baby with him but after she got sterilised he decided to stay with her because he could use that to make her feel guilty that she was the reason he couldn't have children, he felt it gave him some leverage in the relationship because he had something on her.

I just think it's often it's part and parcel of getting together with someone younger who has no kids of their own.

It's a lot to ask someone to support your role as a parent and all the sacrifices that entails (impact on finances, your time, your freedom to move etc) and also to act as a family with your kids every other weekend (or however often) but then not allow that person to become a parent themselves, if they want to of course.

Also these men have a choice, they could leave the relationship if it was so important for them not to have another child.

I told my now dh that if he’d had kids when we’d met, I wouldn’t have started dating him. Just not for me.

I would have said the same thing but it's not always that clear cut. You can't help who you develop feelings for, and as you get older many people tend to have kids already.

I think a lot of men don’t want first families

^^

I agree with this

I think the top reason men have children at all is that they're with women that want them.

100%

Men want sex and cleaners and to not be lonely. Everything else is to keep the sexy cleaner happy

I deliberately avoided men with young kids when I was dating. Kids a fair bit older than my own was fine for me. Happily I found a chap with no kids.

That's what I want out of a relationship too, sex and someone to do all the drudge work that I don't like doing
I think lots of women would like to have a relationship with a 'sexy cleaner' too