Was ibu to react like this. Should i say sorry

[Anonmummyoftwo]

Honestly it was a reaction i couldnt control. Before i could stop myself it just came out. Was waiting to lift ds5 from school today and chatting with the other mums. One said about her baby going next week for her year vaccines and another mum jumped in and said your really shouldnt my ds never got any of his because her sisters friends dd caught autism from them. Before i could stop myself i let out a laugh and said oh for god sake are you serious. I said you cant catch autism first off and second that bloody crap about the vaccine causing autism has been proven to be a load of crap. She tried to argue her point but i just said look im not listening and went in got my ds and left. A few mums agreed with me but this mum has just messaged me saying shes upset at how i acted and would like me to say sorry infront of the other mums at drop off in the morning. I told her im sorry for upsetting you but i wont say sorry at the school because i think shes being a fool. This is a grown woman whos at least 30 and truthfully i did think she was a smart woman till that. Do people really still think you can "catch" autism from a vaccine

www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347

Well done you. I would not apologise to her. What she is doing is damaging other children's health. Idiot

Yes, I think it was more than just the conflict of interest.

I'm hesitant to say without double-checking – there's more than enough fake news without me creating any – but IIRC he faked the cluster, ie implied it was incidence found in a random group (and therefore potentially scaleable), when in fact he'd cherry-picked children who were already known to have both autism and a suspicion by parents of vaccination damage.

You could "prove" autism is caused by blond hair by the same technique!

But as I say, please do go check that because I'm saying that from memory.

Ah, thank you, chickenyhead, that BMJ article is free to view and explains Wakefield and the vaccine scare in detail.

Ignore my burblings from memory!

Tell her 'thank you' for opening up the topic because fake news and misinformation have to be tackled head on and she gave you the opportunity to do just that!

purplebunny2012

I believe everyone should have the choice in what to do with their children.

Unless it puts others at risk. Which leaving kids unvaccinated does...

But it doesn’t does it - if you’ve vaccinated? And the in-vaccinated choose to run that risk.

But some children cannot be vaccinated and so rely on herd immunity which requires 90% population are vaccinated

But it doesn’t does it - if you’ve vaccinated? And the in-vaccinated choose to run that risk.

No vaccine is 100% effective, though some come close. Infants who are too young to vaccinate, those for whom vaccination is medically contraindicated and the elderly who have a weaker immune system response to vaccination do not "choose to run that risk".

HTH.

I think you were really rude to that mum, not every one can grasp these things, however I would struggle to stifle a laugh if I heard someone say something so stupid. Firstly she is ignorant and putting her kids and others at risk by not vaccinating her kids, but you could have educated her on the matter, just to stop her spreading that drivel.

I'm glad you refused to apologise on her terms, that's not reasonable expectation but it shows she is insecure so maybe me a bit nicer to her?

'I believe everyone should have the choice in what to do with their children.

Unless it puts others at risk. Which leaving kids unvaccinated does...

But it doesn’t does it - if you’ve vaccinated? And the in-vaccinated choose to run that risk.'

It still does put others at risk. (1) Vaccination does not work for EVERYONE (just as some people have had the actual diseases twice); and if there are lots of unvaccinated people around, then some vaccinated people are at risk; (2) There are some people who can't be vaccinated because of severe allergies, immune disorders, or because they are taking immunosuppressant medicines, such as cancer patients on chemo and patients on anti-rejection drugs for transplant surgery. Such people are also at particularly high risk if they catch the diseases, so it's important that they don't come into contact with them; (3) Some vaccines, including the MMR, don't work for very young babies. The MMR is not fully effective before the age of a year, and not effective at all before the age of six months. Again, young babies are at high risk if they catch the diseases.

Also: the woman in question did not just say that she wasn't vaccinating her children. She actively tried to dissuade another mother from vaccinating hers. Thus the argument that she has a right to choose for her own children is not relevant here.

YANBU. Her ignorance could kill someone and you shoukd tell her that tomorrow infront of the other mums. Selfish cow.

Are you sorry? If you're not, why would you consider apologising? Maybe you shouldn't have laughed at her, but she needs to grow a pair. If she's able to spout her beliefs on vaccinations (beliefs that most sane people would find ridiculous), she needs to accept that people will disagree and possibly laugh at her. I'm all for being kind and if I've got nothing nice to say etc, but she wasn't thinking about anyone else when she made the decision not to vaccinate her DC 🤷

But it doesn’t does it - if you’ve vaccinated? And the in-vaccinated choose to run that risk.'

My son has an immune disorder. So your unvaccinated child is very much a risk to my child, who I would love to vaccinate.

OP? Don’t you think you were being a bit harsh LAUGHING at her and making her look a fool in front of everyone? There are more tactful and thereby successful ways of getting your point across. How would you feel in her shoes? I think she’s pretty brave in asking you for an apology. From the sounds of it, her self esteem must be at a low ebb😢

She humiliated herself by being ignorant and imposing her ignorance on others.

She wasn't brave, she is too stupid to be brave.

I hate anti vaxxers so much that I can't be polite to them. They are idiots. I can accept almost any other difference in opinion but those people do not deserve to be respected.

YANBU

You were a bit rude, so should probably apologise for that. Perhaps "sorry i scoffed at you the other day. I was just totally surprised that someone who appears to be intelligent could believe the conspiracy theory around vaccinations. There's so many studies disproving the link between vaccination and autism. It makes me cranky that people feel entitled to endanger vulnerable people in our society by insisting on their entirely ignorant stance with regards to vaccinations. Again, I'm sorry I scoffed, I just didn't expect such an ill- informed comment from you"

If you were feeling particularly mean you add that it's pretty well accepted now that these anti-vaccination "truths" are being propagated by countries trying to destabilise western nations. The poorer the group immunity, the more vulnerable we become. (Absolutely no truth in any of that, but sounds like she'd believe anything).

There are however children who have been severely harmed by vaccines. There is a government fund to pay out for vaccine-damaged children. And some of the damage produces symptoms that are very similar to autism.

It is a conversation worth having, unfortunately you are too arrogant to think that this other mother could possibly have thought about this issue.

coyoacan evidence, please.

Dont apologise. She should be apologising for suggesting that autism can be caught and for trying to shame that other mum who will quite rightly be vaccinating her baby. Personally I would burst out laughing if someone had said that to me. Maybe she should consider her manners having butted in on someone's conversation to spread this crap.

@LiveInAHidingPlace

FYI Declaring vaccine hesitancy one of the ten biggest health threats in 2019 is unhelpful
Read this article on the dangers of vaccinations and the lack of evidence based medicine It’s a quite balanced view on vaccinations (their pros but also their cons and what we dint know yet)

But we don't have a lot of evidence about the overall health effects of vaccines. Everybody has been so sure that vaccines only protected against the target infection, nothing else, and so nobody studied the overall health effects. They were simply assumed to be proportionally beneficial.
None of the currently used vaccines were tested in randomised trials to document that they were overall beneficial before being introduced. And once a vaccine is recommended, it is almost impossible to study it in randomised trials because most ethical committees would not allow researchers to deprive a child of a recommended vaccine.

Now I dint know about you, but I would be hesitant about taking ANY medication that hasn’t been properly tested.
The idea that someone needs ‘evidence’ about the fact there is a fund for vaccine damaged children is laughable at the very least. This has existed for decades because Yes VACCINES DO HAVE RISK AND SOME CHILDREN ARE HURT BY THEM just like it is with any medication. There is a reason why there is always a very long list of possible side effects with medications and vaccines are a medication and have the same long list of side effects. It’s just that we are never given said list and acknowledging those possible side effects are going against the narrative of ‘vaccines are life savers and anti gazers are dangerous’.

You're right, but you were wrong to belittle her. Educate people but mocking them will just anger them and your point wont be heard.

There is ignorance on both side of the argument. She was stupid but you were rude.
I can't see the point posting this though as you know that.

This is just another thread about vaccination so everyone can pile on and show their ignorance on both sides.

And yes vaxxers are just as ignorant as anti vaxxers, if they run to vaccination and never take note of some of the openly known issues with some vaccinations. That's just ignorance gone the other way.

myriade

Perhaps from a source somewhat more renowned than medicalxpress.com? (Missing "e" as published.)