Was ibu to react like this. Should i say sorry

[Anonmummyoftwo]

Honestly it was a reaction i couldnt control. Before i could stop myself it just came out. Was waiting to lift ds5 from school today and chatting with the other mums. One said about her baby going next week for her year vaccines and another mum jumped in and said your really shouldnt my ds never got any of his because her sisters friends dd caught autism from them. Before i could stop myself i let out a laugh and said oh for god sake are you serious. I said you cant catch autism first off and second that bloody crap about the vaccine causing autism has been proven to be a load of crap. She tried to argue her point but i just said look im not listening and went in got my ds and left. A few mums agreed with me but this mum has just messaged me saying shes upset at how i acted and would like me to say sorry infront of the other mums at drop off in the morning. I told her im sorry for upsetting you but i wont say sorry at the school because i think shes being a fool. This is a grown woman whos at least 30 and truthfully i did think she was a smart woman till that. Do people really still think you can "catch" autism from a vaccine

[PhilSwagielka]

yANBU, because anyone who'd rather let a child die than risk them being autistic, which has been debunked countless times anyway, has no business having children.

[Coyoacan]

Everyone is so sure they are talking about self-evident truths, when the choice to vaccinate should be a matter of weighing up risks.

The ignorance on this thread astounds me and there is nothing worse than people who are not only ignorant but believe they know it all.

[Myriade]

You could try ‘The Conversation’ instead @LiveInAHidingPlace for the of the exact same article.
Or you could read PubMed. It is after all THE source of research article.

But the point was, if you had read the whole article, that it’s not as black and white as it’s make out to be. And that much more research is needed.
I have to say I’m struggling to see what is your issue with that statement. Unless you are just as entrenched in your ideas and ignorant as some anti vaxxers are.

[LiveInAHidingPlace]

myriade I'll start listening when you start linking to actual sources.

[StanleySteamer]

I actually knew Andy (former doctor) Wakefield as a teenager and young man and I cannot believe where and how much he went wrong!! He WAS a decent bloke, once.
He is now responsible indirectly for many deaths. The woman who was spouting off about "catching autism" is a sad unfortunate creature who chose to believe any crap rather than simply accept she is unlucky having an autistic child. By "asking" you to apoogise publicly, she is trying to punish you, indirectly for having her autistic child. Tell her you are sorry FOR her but that not only is it not your fault but that it is right to try and prevent others being seriously ill and occasionally dying as a result of not having the MMR vaccine. Tell her in a text but do NOT do it in front of the other mums.

[StanleySteamer]

No, St Mary's Paddington, my mother trained at the Royal Free.

[StanleySteamer]

Sorry, @Cherrysoup, No, St Mary's Paddington, (My mother trained at the Royal Free)
(Still trying to find ways to reply to poster's threads.)

[StanleySteamer]

Sorry, AGAIN @cherrysoup, he trained at St Mary's but WAS at the Royal Free when he did what did so much harm.
My bad!!
(how his parents must feel, if they are still alive which I doubt, both doctors)

[LiveInAHidingPlace]

"she is unlucky having an autistic child"

Wow. That's a bold statement.

[StanleySteamer]

LiveInA HidingPlace
Sorry, do you think she is "lucky" having an autistic child? Do you think she is "responsible" for having an autisitc child? Do you think there is any reason, diagnosed or not, for having autistic children that could possibly have been the mother's fault? Try reading this www.center4research.org/causes-autism-kids-diagnosed/
then tell me the woman was not unlucky to have an autistic child, unless she had already had one or two and didn't twig that it was probably genetic and should maybe reconsidr having any more. Idiot.

[Timandra]

I have two autistic children. They are everything to me and a certainly do consider myself lucky to have them.

[StanleySteamer]

The lack of luck I mentioned is that this woman's child is autistic, not the fact that she has a child at all.
If she had a choice do you think she would have chosen to have an autistic child? Would anyone?
I have a brother who has a slight mental disablility, my parents didn't chose this to happen, it was an accident that happened due to a problem at birth. no one's fault, (back in the 50s). Do we love him any the less? No we don't? Was it bad luck? Yes, of course. so therefore were we lucky to have him born with a health problem? No, of course not. He, and we, would all have preferred him to have been born normal (whatever that means) but it was not to be. We could have been unluckier, he could have turned out to be a real sh1t, he could have been unemployable, he could have suffered major physical health problems all his life, fortunately he didn't.
Having good health, despite all the Daily Mail will tell you, is still often a case of luck. Therefore having bad health is also often a case of bad luck. If good luck was universal we would all be born intelligent, fit and beautiful. Not many of us are. Shit happens and we all have to live with it. My father also suffered depression most of his life, to the point of suicide attempts, it didn't stop us loving him. Most of us love our family members despite their problems, but not because of them.
So stop trolling and trying to make people feel bad for thinking logically and not emotionally.

[Timandra]

If she had a choice do you think she would have chosen to have an autistic child? Would anyone?

I don't think the answer to that question is as simple as you might think.

I agree with @LiveInAHidingPlace. It is a bold (and uninformed) statement to make.

[gobeithio]

Do not apologise. People like her are putting everyone's health at risk with their moronic behaviour.

Alternatively: agree to apologise on the condition that she provides you with proof that vaccines cause autism.

[StanleySteamer]

@timandra. It is obvious that you have hugely personal experience of the situation. I am not going to patronise you by offering either sympathy or congratulations. I do however respect you for putting yourself and your situation out there and being prepared to post about it.
You have not posted any further details of your situation as to whether you had tests before your births, whether you thought you needed to have tests, whether you even knew there were tests or whether at the time you were pregnant tests were even available. As you have two autistic children we do not know whether the genetic possibility of having a second autistic child i.e. 20 times more likely, was even explained to you. In short we do not know much about your personal circumstances.
However, the argument is similar to the one concerning children with Down Syndrome. The parents who have this test then have a very difficult decision to make, whether to proceed with the pregnancy, in full knowledge, or to have a termination.
But at least they have fairly accurate knowledge of a fairly accurate test and its results.
Prenatal testing for Autism is nowhere near as accurate AND not so many parents even think of having it done.
See www.spectrumnews.org/features/deep-dive/the-problems-with-prenatal-testing-for-autism/ for a description of it all. (This is for other Mums to read as I am sure you know it all already.)
So I stand by my statement that it is largely a matter of luck whether a parent has a child with autism or not.
My " bold statement" as you put it was not in fact a statement it was a question. In fact two questions. You, as far as I am aware, are the only person who is posting on this thread who could possibly answer these questions, or anyway, the first one. You have chosen not to, beyond saying that the question is not a simple one.
Never in my wildest imaginings did I think there could possibly be an easy answer. If there had been a test for you and you did know of the possibility I am sure you must have been torn in two about it all. But if research into these fields is to go ahead, and human beings are going to benefit from this research, doctors, psychiatrists, politicians etc need to know at least some of the answers before going ahead and deciding that all pregnant women should have tests for various possible maladies occuring to their foetuses or not. The tests for Down syndrome are routinely offered to women nowadays, not necessarily all women but a great many, especially as women are having babies nowadays much older than used to be the norm. Do you think this should be stopped? Do you think testing for all possible abnormalities should become routine thus giving women choice? Which after all is what we are all told nowadays is what people always want? Or do you think that the sanctity of life should overule all possible medical advances and no tests should be offered? Thus leading to the situation being what it was about 50 years ago where having a baby with an abnormality was simply seen as part of life and the mother should just get on with it. That was how it was when my brother was born. We just got on with it. But my mother, a doctor, suffered guilt feelings about his situation, (as if she could have done anything about it,) for the rest of her life. It absolutely changed the dynamic of the family.
As the weblink shows, prior knowledge of the possibility of having an autistic child leads to " women describe these decisions as “tortured” and talk about a “frenzied search” for more information."
So, I never said the answer was simple. I never suggested an answer, I simply raised the question. Some people in full knowledge of the fact that they have a foetus which shows the symptoms of Down syndrome, do carry the baby to full term. But as studies show, far fewer now do, as a result of accurate testing being available.
I agree it was a bold question but I refuse to accept that it was uniformed. I am not going to reiterate my previous post about living with two family members with mental health issues, you can re-read it yourself, it shows I have very personal experience, But quite apart from this I have had personal experience in working with both adults and children with autism. 25% of the students in my school of 1600 students had statements and many of those were autistic, or on the autistic spectrum, so I have seen the many and varied forms of autism that exist and have worked with these students. I probably saw more autistic children on a daily basis than many people meet in their whole lives. I even had a colleague whose husband is on the autistic spectrum and is an airline pilot. Although it makes other parts of his life difficult, it doesn't mean he cannot do a very tricky and responsible job very well. I'd rather fly with him than anyone else I know.
So, you have very direct knowledge of the situation, I have direct knowledge of a similar situation and direct but more superficial knowledge of many children on the autistic spectrum.
So your remark that my "statement" was "uninformed" is absolutely and fundamentally not correct.
As your situation is a deeply personal one and as this whole thread has got a bit off topic, I don't really expect you to answer my question. But nevertheless, the question hangs in the air and professionals from walks of life that this situation, to test or not to test, impinges upon, have some difficult moral, ethical and sadly religious decisions to make. But it doesn't mean that ordinary folk should not consider them without being told they are being "bold". In the end, the world often needs bold thoughts and bold actions.

[Penelopeschat]

@Anonmummyoftwo - x asked me to apologize in front of you all, not sure why but I will. I am sorry that x is so ill informed about vaccinations and child’s healthy that she is putting children and infants at risk. I’m also sorry X think she is smarter than all the peer reviewed research featured in medical journals and I’m sorry that if there were an epidemic her children would be so at risk. Then I’d smile.

That is what I would want to do. Wish I had the guts.

[Monsterdogs]

@sashadik 😂 you have posted this to a completely unrelated thread.

[flyingspaghettimonster]

I would text back "I would like you to apologise for exposing us all to your unvaccinated child, but I am guessing you won't realise how selfish you are being so we will have to agree to disagree on this."

[sashadik]

Monsterdogs how embarrassing you can tell I'm new to this 😂😂 thank you

[Marriedwithchildren5]

Perhaps if more people took the time to explain the facts instead of jumping on the ignorant, batshit, insane comments.

Perhaps you could have made her think twice about her thoughts.
There are obviously people who still believe this and the fact that people are so shocked is really stupid. If you've got time to mock and flounce off perhaps you had time to point out some proper facts and put her on the spot. She may have had time to think about it and reassess her thoughts.

[AdoreTheBeach]

@Anonmummyoftwo can you let us know what eventually happened? Hoping the other mums agreed with you and no apology required (nor backlash).

[mediumbrownmug]

Oh FFS, YANBU. It’s women like her who literally could’ve killed me with their ignorance while I was immunocompromised during chemotherapy. She should hope that getting laughed at for subscribing to such false and dangerous information is the worst way this will affect her life. Because it can be so much worse.

[Poppinjay]

My " bold statement" as you put it was not in fact a statement it was a question.

This was the statement you made.

The woman who was spouting off about "catching autism" is a sad unfortunate creature who chose to believe any crap rather than simply accept she is unlucky having an autistic child.

It was a bold and uninformed statement which labelled the mother as unlucky because she had an autistic child. It was nothing to do with the ethics of pre-natal testing.

I am also the mother of two autistic children. I do not consider myself to be unlucky. I certainly do not consider it appropriate for anyone else to presume that I am or feel unlucky.

I have a friend whose son has red hair. She feels unlucky to have had a baby with red hair. My DD1 has red hair. I don't feel unlucky about that either.

It is not for me to presume that other parents do or do not feel the same. It's a hugely personal issue for any parent and the only assumption I could make is that no two people feel exactly the same.

If you want a thread about the ethics of pre-natal testing for autism, I suggest you start one. I would probably be happy to contribute.