To think that social skills need to be given more emphasis at school?

[HennyPennyHorror]

I don't mean just teaching children about kindness and good manners but more than that.

I've been lucky and both of my DDs have been naturally good at socialising but a number of my friends have children who struggle. Not due to spectrum disorders but they're just not naturally socially skilled.

That tricky line between knowing how and when to approach other children, how to relate well...I strongly believe that some people are born with an innate skill in this area and others are not...I wasn't. I've always struggled...my DH is skilled socially...I can see the difference.

I think that lunchtime supervisors should be more qualified and that they should be paid more.

There should be way more emphasis on it in general...I'm not sure HOW it can be taught but feel that it could be.

I can see where my friends DC struggle...I see what they do wrong...but only because I'm an adult now. As a child I was probably similar...this came up in my mind because yesterday my friend was in tears in my kitchen over her DD who has no friends despite being a very sweet and caring little girl she's always rejected by her peers.

Surely this could be fixed? I see it with another friend and her DS and my niece...am I being silly?

@MereDintofPandiculation

Mere, if you're unable to give your child guidance in sex and relationships, can I suggest that this is nothing to do with you child's schooling and more to do with your own anxiety.

And I would suggest you see your GP first.

Next I would approach the school who may have links with outside agencies I.e. counselling who can help you. - this is what I did. They pointed me to a couple of local sources of support.

Schools definitely think that teaching sex education and relationships are part of their remit and have done for decades.

Ted but the point is that schools have now stepped in with regard to SRE, regardless of what you or I think should be parents' responsibility. It is now part of the curriculum. It was deemed too important for children to risk being uninformed about. I'm beginning to think you are being deliberately obtuse.

Curriculums (curricula?) change. Drama never used to be on it - now it is. Used to be considered extra-curricular - now it isn't.

So that's self-selecting - the shy/socially anxious ones wouldn't volunteer so they're effectively excluded and miss out. A prime example of how schools CAN influence social skills.
You are assuming they don't volunteer.

That's an inaccurate assumption too.

We get lots of students volunteering including those with additional needs, quiet students, shy students. Maybe because we are an inclusive school so those children feel nurtured and valued. They can sign up for different roles and departments that suit them.
That's far better than expecting a socially anxious child to do tours - it's that kind of things that makes things worse rather than better.
Not once did I say we expected socially anxious students do tours.
But keep going with the idea that we're doing a bad job

@CassianAndor

Yes agreed. SRE is now part of the curriculum.

So what then is the problem?

Mere, if you're unable to give your child guidance in sex and relationships, can I suggest that this is nothing to do with you child's schooling and more to do with your own anxiety. That's a big assumption and incorrect on two fronts.

Yes agreed. SRE is now part of the curriculum....So what then is the problem? The problem is social skills as described in the OP.

Have a read of ‘how to make friends and influence people’. You could teach your kids too.

Primary teacher here. We certainly do support and model 'social skills' with our children. We teach and support with positive relationships, trips, regular discussions about kindness, social interaction and friendship issues right from Reception upwards.

We also support children who are struggling with social small groups, interventions and nurture groups.

HOWEVER teachers are contracted for 1265 hours teaching time per year.

I was shocked to realise recently that this works out at far less than 20% of time of the entire year spent in school (not including clubs).

How we're meant to fit even more in, I don't know. Particularly as there's already an over-prescribed and narrow academic curriculum (which technically also requires far more hours than we actually have) to teach.

Parents really do make the most difference.

@theluckiest

Thanks so much for the insider track.

I thought I knew how much teachers and support workers were stretched but it's worse than I assumed.

All the more reason for us parents to not rely on schools to basically teach life skills that are in reality the parents responsibility.

There are two separate issues here in my view - some of us are quiet shy. I used to cross the road rather than run the chance of havig to say hello to a neighbour I could see at a huge distance up ahead. I got over that but I still prefer my own company. My red letter days are those when I don't have to speak to anyone - they very rarely happen.

Separately from that and ensuring we leave quiet and shy children who are happy to be different from others if they want to be rather than force them into stuff they don't want to do.... is the issue of making sure parents and schools equip children for life, teach them how to say how to you do, shake hands, look people in the eye, keep a conversation going etc.

I never said in my OP that I expected teachers to do this. I was clear that I had a simple idea that play workers could be employed in primary school...or lunchtime supervisors could be trained in play....and get paid more.

It was more a thought about the jungle that playgrounds become at breaktime.

And how the DC are just left to it.

All the more reason for us parents to not rely on schools to basically teach life skills that are in reality the parents responsibility. And never mind what happens to the children whose parents don't have the ability to teach those life skills (because they don't have them themselves)?

It’s easy to think you are actually teaching social skills to a dc who picks up social skills easily - pat yourself on the back - we’ll dobe! And if you’ve had to work a wee bit harder - focusing in eye contact and practicing social situations, maybe enrolling in drama school - much praise be laid upon you indeed - when that’s all said and done and the socialisation issues are still and the socialisation issues are still being played out in school and you are being asked to fix something you have no sight of, then I think, just maybe the school have to get a wee bit involved - thing is teachers are not trained to help - so everyone blames everyone else - poor kids!

I don't think it is something that can be taught by parents or teachers. Some people understand it instinctively, others learn through years of accumulated experience and some never get it.

It isn't a case of do x, y, z and people will like you. It's much more complicated than that.

Forcing kids to play with each other just papers over the cracks. It doesn't mean they like each other.

Parents will be asking schools to help their son get a girlfriend next.

OP, apologies for not RTFT, but I got to your second post where you mention an amazing teacher going 'above and beyond'. This is what most teachers do. After 25 years in primary schools, this is my experience. Lunch times and play times spent running social skills intervention groups, supervising clubs and activities aimed at enhancing pupils' social experience. This year, I am supervising pupils in such groups during 3 out of 5 play times (not including my regular playground duty) and 4 out of 5 lunch times. These aren't regular 'lunch time clubs' but actual skills based social interventions. This is almost 5 hours of valuable marking and preparation time per week, which I miss out on in the school day, and end up having to tack on to my regular evening and weekend prep (hence still bloody awake). School are massively underfunded, and would really benefit from so many more support staff, some of whom should be employed in a therapeutic capacity; teaching, encouraging, coaching, coaxing, running and supervising social encounters. But we need to facilitate a massive political shift and actually vote for this change.

I am one of these parents who know social niceties but not how to read between the lines and be part of a social group, how could I teach that to my son even if I would go above and beyond to make sure he turns out different from me?

I don't think there should be formal type social skills lessons in schools, just some strategies in place to make school time less of a hell for those who don't meet criteria for a diagnosis but struggle.

You could say - why do schools teach basic numeracy and literacy? Those are skills everyone should have, so why should we expect schools to teach those. It's the parents' job.

Funnily enough, that's how it used to be. Before schools were freely available, it WAS the parents' job to teach literacy and numeracy. If they couldn't, they had to pay to send their kids to school to be taught by others.

We have a old school house in our village from the 1700s. The history is fascinating. It offered free education to kids to learn classics, latin, business skills, higher Maths, science, etc., but charged for kids to learn basic Maths and English. The whole point of it was to produce highly educated children to start businesses and trade - it wasn't to teach kids the basics that their parents should do.

I don't think there should be formal type social skills lessons in schools, just some strategies in place to make school time less of a hell for those who don't meet criteria for a diagnosis but struggle.

My thoughts exactly. Rather than formal lessons, which if anything like ethics/PPE will be treated as a joke by teachers and kids alike, improve the social side of things in all aspects.

The "wait of shame" in games and PE for team selection has no place in modern society. It's torture and needs to be stopped immediately. For the non-sporty, non-popular kids, it just breeds anxiety and gives ammunition for bullying.

Same with forcing a shy or socially anxious kids to play an instrument, sing, read out, act, present, etc., in front of the class. It's just feeding their insecurities. It has to be purely optional. Despite what teachers think, it's not going to "cure" an anxious child - it's going to make them worse and probably lead to truancy to avoid it.

Why not make more of social norms like hand shaking? No, I don't mean the extremes of shaking every pupil's hand at every lesson - that's just crazy. But there are situations, especially later in school life, when it's perfectly reasonable. Same with having a "proper" sit down meeting with a pupil across a desk/table rather than a stood up chat in a corridor? These are typical real-life scenarios that happen everywhere else, why not schools?

My son's school got a new head and the first thing he did was start inviting pupils to parent's evenings. It's been a massive success. For my son, who is a high performing, but quiet "hide in the corner" kind of kid, it was literally the first time he'd had a "one to one" with many of this teachers. When we get to the front of the queue, the teacher shakes our hands, as normal, but then shakes our son's hand too! Simple things! Then the teachers don't just ignore him when they're talking to us, most include him in the conversation, even for simple yes/no answers. The first time he did it, my son was absolutely blown away with seeing the teacher in a different light, and having a proper meeting, even if it was only 5 minutes each. He tells us it's given him the confidence to speak more to the teacher, discuss problems, etc., whereas previously, he felt no real "attachment" to teachers as they were always talking/shouting to the disruptives and as he said to us "he probably doesn't even know who I am".

Lola that was me and I;m just sharing my recent experiences. I assume schools chose those they consider good advocates for their school to guide prospective parents around
No, at my dcs' state school.all Year 8 and 9s are required to be guides so that assumption would be wrong. I'm not sure whether they cherry pick the guides at private schools. Maybe.

At my dc's school all the Year 8's and Year 9's have to be guides too - it's an outstanding comprehensive - it takes all abilities, so all abilities do the showing around - some of my kid's comments on the parents they have shown around have been quite revealing. 😂

Same with forcing a shy or socially anxious kids to play an instrument, sing, read out, act, present, etc., in front of the class The first school my kids went to insisted on them doing a speech every year from Year 1 in front of the whole class - I thought in Year 1 it was hell but in Year 2 they upped the challenge by asking the other kids in the class to give a public score out of ten following the speech...what kids needs to be judged by their peers - the most popular kid won - every fucking year! The most anxious kids had to take a week off school - if they returned before the end of the competition the teacher would make them do it!

I thought in Year 1 it was hell but in Year 2 they upped the challenge by asking the other kids in the class to give a public score out of ten following the speech...what kids needs to be judged by their peers - the most popular kid won - every fucking year!

That's a perfect example of how teachers can do more harm than good, just like the games "line of shame" team choosing. This kind of stupidity can put kids off team work, public speaking etc for life.

He tells us it's given him the confidence to speak more to the teacher, discuss problems, etc., whereas previously, he felt no real "attachment" to teachers as they were always talking/shouting to the disruptives and as he said to us "he probably doesn't even know who I am"

Sounds great. Shame it's still a band aid over a broken leg though. Which is why I do think parents/care givers should be held more accountable. I'm sure the parebts who dont give a shit probably dont want to deal with their results if not giving a shit at home either. So maybe if they were pulled in and made to teach their own kid in a room.at school or something then maybe they would work on.the behaviour along side the school?

Dd has a kid in her class at secondary. The only time hes not disrupting the class is when hes in the toilet or asleep on the desk. If he had a medical need to spend 30 mins twice a lesson in the toilets surely He'd have a hall pass or something so he could quietly show the teacher and nip out to the loo. But the point is the disruption. Not the toilet.

I wish schools could crack down and involve parents nore in the shocking behaviour of some of their kids.

And I'm.not talking about troubled kids and Angry outbursts or children with SN whi have been ignored until they cant cope and melt down. That's not their fault and I'm.sure teachers do their best to prevent ot or work with them. Bit there is no medical need that requires a person to throw someone stuff around , poke their table partner repeatedly tip out pencil cases and shout at their mates across the table. That's just mucking about .

Theres no point in thinking about social.skills til the basics are dealt with and parents do need to be involved here instead of shirking yet more responsibility onto teachers. I mean if you are gonna rant schopla failed your child and they didnt get any gcses then the least you can do is take away their x box until they at least stop involving other kids in their determination to do zero work..

@SarahTancredi how do you know the kid in your dd's class has not had a troubled childhood?

She goes to a pretty rubbish below average large secondary school. I expect a large proportion of the children who attend have a variety of problems. They arent all acting the way he does. My dd had to be removed from sitting next to him.

I sympathise if hes had a hard time but that doenst mean he has to disrupt the class to the extent the teacher has to keep everyone back to make up the work