To think that social skills need to be given more emphasis at school?

[HennyPennyHorror]

I don't mean just teaching children about kindness and good manners but more than that.

I've been lucky and both of my DDs have been naturally good at socialising but a number of my friends have children who struggle. Not due to spectrum disorders but they're just not naturally socially skilled.

That tricky line between knowing how and when to approach other children, how to relate well...I strongly believe that some people are born with an innate skill in this area and others are not...I wasn't. I've always struggled...my DH is skilled socially...I can see the difference.

I think that lunchtime supervisors should be more qualified and that they should be paid more.

There should be way more emphasis on it in general...I'm not sure HOW it can be taught but feel that it could be.

I can see where my friends DC struggle...I see what they do wrong...but only because I'm an adult now. As a child I was probably similar...this came up in my mind because yesterday my friend was in tears in my kitchen over her DD who has no friends despite being a very sweet and caring little girl she's always rejected by her peers.

Surely this could be fixed? I see it with another friend and her DS and my niece...am I being silly?

@MereDintofPandiculation

Unfortunately nobody is prepared to pay for it.

Schools don't have the budgets that private schools have.

Would be nice, but it's just not there.

I've been doing the tramp around various secondary school open days, private and state. The difference in the social skills between private and state is staggering. I assume that the kids chosen to show parents round on open days are chosen because they are good advocates for the school but the state ones have been mumblers and mutterers, unable to answer questions or go off-script at all, zero spark.

Well let's face it .in.private schools the classes are a third of the size. You had to pass an entrance test to get on so are already academically able enough to access the lesson and half the lesson time womt be spent trying to stop kids from making a racket or falling asleep.

Plenty of time to.add in extras when you aren't fire fighting all day

not in the schools we saw, they were averaging about 24 in a class.

It's merely an observation - but in actual real life the ability to communicate effectively is paramount, and thus I do think it's an essential part of education.

One of my neighbours works in a private school - she says she spends most of the day on behaviour management - no entrance exam needed - just money.

Cassian a few years ago when we were doing the same we arrived at the first Private school to be greeted by a very smart young man in a suit who held out his hand and said “ Hello Mr and Mrs Hopping, Im x, a prefect here, welcome to our school “ he then asked about our journey etc
DH ( broadly anti private school) was blown away by contrast with the pleasant but largely mumbling shrugging teens we had met the week before at our State option.
Private schools DO teach social skills but it’s because they have the time to and unfortunately large State schools generally dont

I've been doing the tramp around various secondary school open days, private and state. The difference in the social skills between private and state is staggering. I assume that the kids chosen to show parents round on open days are chosen because they are good advocates for the school but the state ones have been mumblers and mutterers, unable to answer questions or go off-script at all, zero spark.

We found the same, but we never went to any private schools. We saw the exact same difference between state comps. It's the ethos of the school, the management teams, etc., that make a difference, not whether it's private or state.

At one of the state comps we went to, it was the sixth formers doing the tours and they all opened doors for teachers and visitors, all addressed the teachers as sir or miss as they passed in the corridors, etc. The teachers were very "visitor" focussed, coming over to talk to us as soon as we entered a room, shaking our hands (including our DS), and talking directly to DS, asking him questions, showing him the displays etc. It was an absolute delight to see.

At another state comp, it was the first formers doing the tours who were barely literate, couldn't answer questions, didn't even know where some of the rooms were - it was a shambles, whilst the teachers just sat around talking to eachother and not engaging with parents at all - if we had a question, we felt we were intruding into their personal conversations when we went over to talk to them and not a single teacher shook our hand nor spoke directly to our son. We crossed it off our list!

Which proves it is the ethos and values of the school rather than how much £ the parents have.

9-3 = 6, that's only a quarter of their day. If they sleep about 11/12 hours, they still have 6 hours with carers. If their parents work full time - they spend very little time during the week with them.

but I hear that schools are now being asked to help children to brush their teeth.

Where did you hear that?!

You can teach social skills at home but the environment with siblings cousins and friends in the area they’ve known all their lives is SO different from a primary playground with 400 kids to negotiate a place in. School social skills are quite specific to school environments and so need to be managed there imo.
So far (p2) I’ve been really really impressed with our schools atmosphere of kindness and nurturing.

AlienInvasion I've heard that too. Probably in the Daily Fail. But it's true that in areas with poverty endemic in the community, many children won't be taught basics. Sadly. It's not because "poor people are thick" or anything but because of the complex issues which arise from generation after generation being exposed to poor housing, unstable work and lack of basics.

I know schools do not have the resources to do this but I struggle to at home.

I have no social skills. I really try but never have and even as an adult I just can't see what I do wrong. I've realised it was always me doing the chasing so I stopped. No one has contacted me in over a month.

I am not the right person to teach my daughter how to make friends because I don't know how to. Despite trying my hardest, I can't even create the environment where she might.

My daughter isn't shy. She will talk confidently to anyone about anything and will enthusiastically throw herself into everything. She is polite and considerate. She can be bossy but we're working on it, and I don't think she's anymore bossy than other 9 year old girls.

I took her to all the baby groups, she went to nursery, she does various out of school and after school activites.

I've tried to make mum friends. We've had kids come for tea.

She has never been asked back to anyone's house, and has been invited to 2 birthday parties in 3 years.

She has 2 friends, one of whom is moving in 6 months time.

I don't know what to do or say when she comes home in tears again because no one would let her join in their game at lunch time again. She needs to learn how to enjoy her own company but it's not unreasonable for her to want to play with people.

I have spent all of my life trying to make friends. I don't want her to be the same. I need school to help me because I can't do it.

I think most of these private school pupils will have learnt their social skills well before secondary school, so it's not really the school's ethos that has created them. It's their upbringing, and being surrounded by other kids with a similar upbringing, that has made them that way.

I think primary schools do give a lot of help with social skills - not as actual targeted lessons, but in constantly managing the interactions of the children, talking about being kind, sharing with others etc. However, if this isn't backed up at home, and if kids are being given poor examples by parents and siblings, school can't do much about that.

I've worked in a lot of schools - primary, secondary, private and state. The biggest influence on children's behaviour, social skills and attitude towards other people is their upbringing (also any developmental issues or individual needs they have), not their school's ethos.

It's a nice idea OP and I see where you're coming from because it's difficult for the parents to teach, without being there in the school setting themselves. I don't think it's a job for lunchtime supervisors though.

It's definitely easier for some than others, and it can definitely be taught (where there are no SEN). I was a very socially awkward child, and I'm not (I don't think!) as an adult!

Our school is really good. My son is a very chatty boy but has always been happy playing on his own and doing his own thing, he's had a following of kids but didn't know how to relate to them.
One of the assistants used to take put groups of 4 kids at a time into another room and they would practise asking each other questions and relating to each other. It did wonders for him! He suddenly was interested in other kids. I'd have had no idea what to do.
They also involve the older kids a lot, e.g. at lunchtime the older kids have to sit with the younger ones and help them out/show them how to do things.

Bish this sounds so like my friend's DD. I really feel for you. I cannot think why some perfectly lovely children struggle like this and THIS is why I thought something else could be done somehow.

TempNameCHange I also don't think it's a job for lunchtime supervisors though...that's why I suggested trained staff. There could be extra courses they could do...and get paid more.

In an ideal world..where there was budget. :(

@HennyPennyHorror I'm a lunchtime supervisor and I'd be happy to get any extra qualifications they needed me to.You learn about safeguarding and do a first aid course but that's about it.

I thought schools did this. It's a pretty standard thing as on every home ed bashing thread, the majority go on about social skills and Socialisation.

Yet most home ed kids have better social skills as they meet a variety of ages and different times, groupings and places.

School is very artificial in that respect with all the same age clustered together. Making it harder to be friends with other age groups. It's more artificial as life is not like that.

But surely this is a basic skill requirement that can be taught in any lesson in a multitude of ways. If schools aren't doing it then why not?

Also if schools simply cannot incorporate this into the current lessons (which I also understand with the amount of crap, tests and paperwork, the government forces on them), Where are the parents? What's there role?

Too much nannying of parents and too much being left to be taught at school.
Don't get me wrong, I think schools should have it as standard in all sorts of lessons, the good teachers and schools, do do this already.

However parents need to play their part and parent. This covers life skills, sex education, money and budgeting, basic cookery and social skills. Parents should be doing these as standard and so should the school.

This is one of the main reasons I home ed. I want to teach my child all this on a daily basis plus a more standard curriculum.

A well rounded education should include all this and more.

And yes some parents simply cannot as not able to themselves and that's why school has its place.

In the average home ed group and activities, this is done as standard most times, as kids come and go constantly. I like that as social games are worth there weight in gold for helping social skills and integrating a child into the group.

These are lifelong skills.

Thank you Henry.

I've asked for a meeting with her teacher and will be raising it. For the first time ever she said she didn't want to go to school. Her behaviour at home has deterioarated since going back to school. She isn't happy and I think it's to do with this.

I honestly don't know what I want to the teachers to do though. She's had support in the past eg teachers working with her and other children to encourage them to include each other but I dunno, she's 9, we can't keep asking the school to step in. I also get the impression her new teacher is much more about formal maths/English etc than the "fluffy" side of teaching. Plus, as already has been said, resources.

She's started taking in a book to read so she isn't sat there by herself. They have a craft room where they can play and she'll happily spend time in there by herself so I'm going to give the school some money for extra resources in there. Hopefully these will help her enjoy her own company which is always a good thing.

I am dreading it when she gets older when some girls actively exclude people.

I think Schools are doing very well supporting the work that parents do irt social skills. Perhaps if there is a problem the parents need to do more to teach their children.
You shouldn't rely on schools to raise your children, they are support.

It's merely an observation - but in actual real life the ability to communicate effectively is paramount, and thus I do think it's an essential part of education. Absolutely. No matter how brilliant you are, if you can't get other people on side, you won't achieve much. And if you struggle with social skills, the time has gone when there are jobs for the oddballs who find it hard to get on with other people - even minimum wage jobs nowadays require good social and communication skills.

BishBashBoshy You've said so much better the point I've been trying to make.

lazylinguist I see what you're saying. But doesn't this just continue the cycle of deprivation from generation to generation? And is that fair? We try to compensate, for example, for children with not much access to books at home, should we not also try to compensate for children in a home environment where the adults struggle in the way Bishbash describes?

Why should it be up to schools to teach this?! It's up to us as parents.