To think Sam Smith is being ridiculous?

[gc400]

For asking to be called they/them?

It's easier to erase women as a class/sex/identity than it is for men to confront each other with their own internalised issues/toxicity.

It's not erasing women though. I'm suddenly not going to disappear/pop out of existence as a biological woman just because there's transwomen or non binary people out there.
Transmen - it's the same line of thinking as saying men would be erased by transmen existing.
There's still going to be services and everything available for biological women too, it's not erasing to accept transwomen - we're (biological) still here and not "erased" ffs

I'm suddenly not going to disappear/pop out of existence as a biological woman just because there's transwomen or non binary people out there

Transphobic to say 'biological woman'. tut tut.

I'd just like to say that I didn't report Tizzy's post calling me a fuckwit.

I thought that was pretty fucking mild compared to all the ageism and I'd always rather let posts like that from self-proclaimed TRAs stand.

Whatever they think being a woman is, it's not what they think

I was asked to explain it, I'll have a go but I know there's not much point, but meh.
It's nothing to do with thinking what a woman is.
It's not a thought or the fact you like knitting or whatever.
I'm not a bloody scientist, I don't have all the answers.
I do know though that it's nothing to do with what you're (as a person and individual) is thinking.
I',m a bit WTF about non binary to be honest, but if I'm this way like just (badly) explained further up my comment, it's not a huge leap of the imagination to think others might have a more fluid one and have both?! Male and female sense?
Fk knows lol, as I don't have both but know I have one of them

Transphobic to say 'biological woman'. tut tut

Well that's a brill response, ffs lol

I'd just like to say that I didn't report Tizzy's post calling me a fuckwit.

Presumably Tizzy has now been banned what with 3 deletions.

If you know you have a sense of being female, can you explain what you mean by that?

I can understand if you don't want to, but I am genuinely interested in what this 'inner sense' is because I honestly don't understand it.

Roses with all the best will in the world. Of course you won't disappear just because a transwoman comes along. But what about domestic violence refuges? Rape crisis centres? If anyone can call themselves a woman and we have to accept it what of the more vulnerable women among us? If there are specific grants to encourage more women into e.g comedy writing and its open to anyone who 'identifies' as a woman then what of ACTUAL women? What about women's sporting competitions? A male rugby player in a woman's league (which has already happened) has the potential to annihilate a woman by virtue of their male build/strength.

This is more than just letting people live as they wish. I have no issue with anyone who wants to wear a dress or a bit of lipstick. But it's not easy being a woman in the first place. Once we allow anyone to 'be a woman' then 'woman' and women's rights ceases to have any significance.

Presumably Tizzy has now been banned what with 3 deletions.

Possibly, though we're in AIBU so I don't know whether those rules apply here.

I thought tizzy had gone quiet. Shame, I was enjoying the entertainment.

Apparently a man gave birth. Interestingly enough they failed to mention that this medical marvel happened to be a woman that transitioned to identifying as a man. Men can give birth!?

See, that I can agree with - it's important that biology is taught as well, biological men obviously can't give birth. That's an important fact to know.
Doesn't mean that someone can't identify as a man though, or a woman.
To "match up" so to speak.
If they've got this inate sense as well.
I mean they can't all be doing it on a random whim like it's implied sometimes on here, why the fk would you put yourself through all the pain, mentally and physically and willingly take on all the abuse?

There is a mumsnetter now, tonight, in a tent in the USA; because no womens' refuges in the states she can access, exclude males.

Vulnerable women are taking their chances in tents; rather than be locked in refuges with men.

It is absolutely unforgivable that these women's refuges are not excluding men, and by doing so, are excluding women who cannot afford to be in vulnerable positions with males.

That is what this comes to. Refusal to exclude males naturally ends up excluding females. When that is supposed to be a service specifically for women, it is not just lunacy but bloody dangerous.

I just don't know how people can stand there and call us bigots or narrow minded, for wanting women to be safe.

What is it about roses? I know you said what it isn't, but if you feel innately female (not from socialisation based on your biology, or your physical body) I'd love to know what that feels like.

I do not understand what it means to 'have' a gender. I don't have internal feelings of being all womanly. Never have. Am I trans?

Yes, you are agender Dick Congratulations! You may now choose your pronouns.

I can think of several explanations as to what someone would want to identify as the opposite sex. I can also believe they think it's true. That doesn't mean it really is true though.

I wondered if I was "really" male when I was a student. I studied science, my friends were male, I got on with them more easily than with the non-science based female students I met. Men seemed less complicated. I didn't "get" makeup or shopping or shoes or anything which was supposedly typically female. I expect if I was 20 now I would definitely be non-binary and possibly a gay trans man.

None of the above actually made me male. I realised exactly how female I was when I had children and discovered how differently men and women are treated.

So I am a woman because of biology.

I don't think my experience is unusual, many women I have met had similar experiences, it's why we find the whole ideology so worrying for girls. We could have been medically damaged for no good reason.

I'm a bit WTF about non binary to be honest

I find non-binary quite easy to understand, because I think that humans are on a spectrum of how feminine or masculine they are. So on one end you have the very masculine men, through to the more feminine men and there is a sort of overlap in the middle with the more masculine women and then all the way on the other end are the very feminine women. Presumably some of those people in the middle don't feel especially male or female, but who the fuck cares and why make a big song and dance about it and insist on changing your pronouns? It just strikes me as being utterly self-absorbed. You're still biologically male or female, so why does the entire world have to use a factually incorrect plural pronoun for you all of a sudden or risk the wrath of the PC police? So many people are just up their own arses these days.

And actually it's not as simple as people are what they say they are. Janice Turner has just asked Owen Jones if he will also congratulate her on her non binary status. He has replied that she is not non binary. So only certain people apparently are allowed to make this claim. So man says he is non binary and is congratulated, woman says she is non binary and is told she is a liar.
Is there a committee that decides on this, and if so which fuckers voted for Owen Jones to be on it.

@tizzybell

because 'marvellous mumsnetters' or whatever it was, isn't a pronoun, it is an adjective followed by a noun

Sorry posted too soon

@tizzybell

because 'marvellous mumsnetters' or whatever it was, isn't a pronoun, it is an adjective followed by a noun

If you now think they and them can refer to a singular male, then clearly we can make pronouns be whatever we want them to be. So my pronoun is Wise and Superior Mumsnetter and the plural refers to others here instead of you, they and them. Please respect my new pronoun and please don’t tell me I can’t change language, seeing as everyone, including you and Sam Smith seem to be allowed to do so.

And actually it's not as simple as people are what they say they are. Janice Turner has just asked Owen Jones if he will also congratulate her on her non binary status. He has replied that she is not non binary. So only certain people apparently are allowed to make this claim. So man says he is non binary and is congratulated, woman says she is non binary and is told she is a liar.
Is there a committee that decides on this, and if so which fuckers voted for Owen Jones to be on it.

Why does this not surprise me one little bit.

I was pretty happy to discover I am trans. I am gender free, which means I don't have a gender at all (because I don't believe in the gender religion). Back in the real world, I'm a woman (adult human female) who has experienced rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment (on separate occasions) discrimination during pregnancy and childbirth, discrimination at work and the impact on my career of having had children. All because I'm a woman. Hey if I had time for all this navel gazing, maybe I could have identifed as a man or enby and been safe from all that stuff. But no, funnily enough, most men know exactly what a woman is.

I was pretty happy to discover I am trans. I am gender free, which means I don't have a gender at all (because I don't believe in the gender religion).

I see it like finding out your a Gemini or whatever. You ARE one by definition but it doesn’t actually make a practical difference to your life.

I see this as very different to people who have body dysmorphia.

*you’re

I got as far as page 7 of this thread and this comment:

Just another bunch of offensive, archaic and prejudice views that will slowly die out along with a generation

and gave up.

Just fuck off. It's not a generational thing. Those of us who disagree with this crap aren't all narrow minded, bigoted octogenarians (which is an incredible ageist notion in the first place - yet I bet those who subscribe to this idea would never consider themselves bigoted in any way).

I'm in my 40s (which may seem ancient to some, ha). DD however is in her early 20s. She's gay. She has been ostracised by her friendship group for saying she would not have a sexual relationship with someone with a penis, however they identified. Because she's a lesbian. When she was a teenager and deciding whether or not she might be gay, she was horrified by the pervading idea among her peers that if you were a lesbian and refused to have relationships with transwomen you were transphobic, bigoted etc. She told me this earlier this year and also about how she had to see our GP and was prescribed anti depressants because it got her down so much.

Imagine being a girl of 13, 14 or whatever trying to understand your sexuality and being bombarded by all this. And it's men doing the bombarding. From Sam Smith's misogynist pronouncements to Owen Jones saying lesbians should have sex with ladydicks or they're transphobic (while refusing so say whether, as a gay man, he'd have sex with a biological woman who identified as male. My guess is he wouldn't).

Also, stop reinforcing the dangerous gender stereotypes women have been battling for years in your quest for 'equality'. Women are not lipstick and heels. Spend a year (or even a week, that'd probably be enough) dealing with unsolicited/unwanted sexual attention, gender pay gaps, periods, being told who you're allowed to have sex with if you're a lesbian, austerity affecting your refuges/services, DV, etc and then tell me if you love 'being' a woman so much.