delicate family problem, WWYD?

[sunflowers63]

Definitely NC for this. Will try and keep it short.

I live in the UK, my parents live in another country and I only see them every couple of years at the most, when they come here, usually for Xmas. I get on OK with them but my father can be a bit of a twat and our political views etc do not coincide. So I tend to be fairly superficial with him, otherwise I get annoyed.

I have a stepdaughter, who is 24 and at university. She is single at the moment, and is a very pretty, bright, fab girl all round. I have a brother, let’s call him Ted, who is 37 and lives in another country (not the one where my parents live, although that is not really relevant). My brother recently got divorced, after a pretty disastrous marriage which we in the family were all very sceptical about from the beginning (I kept my scepticism to myself and tried to be friendly to my SIL, however my parents, on the rare occasions when they met her, were quite rude to her and about her, and made it abundantly clear to my brother that they did not approve of her).

My parents are coming to us this Xmas. I was hoping that stepdaughter would also come home for Xmas, in the uni holidays. She has now told me that she won’t come while my parents are here because of something my father said to her a few months ago (when she happened to be visiting the country where my parents live). He reportedly said to her that she should sleep with Ted, in a jokey kind of way. I suppose he thought he was being funny and probably that he was complimenting my stepdaughter by saying that he wished poor divorced Ted could get such a lovely girl.

My stepdaughter was disgusted by this, she did not say anything to me immediately as she did not want to upset me (we are very close), but over the summer holidays, when I asked her if she was coming home for Xmas she said that she could not, because my father will be here, and she had to tell me why. I was embarrassed, horrified and had no idea what to say (still don’t). My DH does not think I should say anything to my parents, my father is likely to either have forgotten the incident altogether (very likely), just deny it, or to say it was just a joke and not understand why anyone would make a fuss.

Should I do anything about this? It is not difficult for my stepdaughter to avoid my parents, they are here once every two to three years at the most. I just feel sad and angry that she has to.

Yes, your father said a highly inappropriate thing, but he is old and probably getting a little senile.

I think your SD is over-reacting. She should be old enough to ingnore inappropriate comments.

Uhuh, creepy old men making lewd comments to young women just can’t help it, and the women really should just suck it up and ignore it. 🙄

Unbelievable.

I would definitely uninvited them for Christmas and invite SD. If they can travel in December they can travel in January. Let him know why.

Your 'd'f needs a swerve! Thats gross, and letchy.

They could still.come but out them up away from home! I would give dsd the choice of what she wants to do.

I wouldn't not say something, just to keep the peace. Noone should get away with such horrible mouth shit.

OP, can you give some more context?

Father "you should shag my son"

Father "wish son had married someone like you, you're a stunner"

I presume that the DSD will have less time visiting than your parents?

If this is the case, could you not tweak the arrangements?
I think there have been some great suggestions and I would add that the book (and pay for) the nicest AirBnb for your step daughter that you can. You arrange for her and your family (not your parents) to have some lovely thing s together, and let her know that she is welcome at your house at any time.

But you also have to say to your Dad that it is completely inappropriate to talk about sex at all to his step granddaughter. You can let him know your boundaries without it turning into WW3, surely?

Father: you should sleep with Ted

Nothing about marriage or anything else, just sex for his [old] son with a 24 year old!!

I agree with others - your husband should take his daughter away somewhere for Christmas and you should tell your dad exactly why they are not there.

We shouldn't have to expect young women to 'toughen up' in the face of letchy, disgusting remarks. What age is your cut off point for being tough, as it starts very early, I can remember it happening to me at the age of twelve or thirteen. Maybe instead of socialising young women to brush off this kind of thing, maybe we should socialise men not to be disgusting creeps.

And the usual dementia bollocks comes out every time someone older behaves badly. The OP has said he's always been like this, as is generally the case on these threads. My father is very elderly but is perfectly able to understand when I explain that certain comments are not acceptable any more.

OP it's a very difficult situation. I understand why you want to see your parents. But I'd feel my loyalty is very much with my DSD. I'd want to make that very clear to her and ask her if there's any way she could still feel able to come to the UK: if you pay for her to stay nearby, not have to see your DF etc.

I think your SD is over-reacting. She should be old enough to ingnore inappropriate comments.
Why is this mans disgusting behaviour being excused by women?!
It’s not throwaway or senility, OP states he’s always pushed sexually loaded comments into conversations.
OP call him out, stop prioritising a sleazy man over your SDD, how would you like someone treating your son like that.

I dont think you should have to lose your dh and dsd for Christmas because of creepy father. Everyone needs to stop protecting Creepy father, and get on with their Christmas without him if he cant do the honourable thing and apologise and acknowledge hes been inappropriate, he puts himself out of the running if he can't appreciate how awkward and uncomfortable he has made a young woman feel.

Its his work to repair this.

If he wants to see his family at Christmas he needs to show some bloody respect to those he's occupying space with.

Try thinking about it in terms of, would he want to destroy his last years/Christmases with families on this planet for the sake of some getting a bloody grip, and having some basic respect.

Poor girl.

I would suggest that she spends a fun Christmas with her dad.

Then you get to spend time with your dc and your parents. And that will be special too.

OP, this touches me where I've had to go once before, with people I love, too, but your situation is a hard step further than that. I'd choose my stepdaughter over my parents.

I think I would speak to my father first and tell him that's the decision I've made and why; does he want me to tell my mother or will he do it. I'd prefer to be the one to tell her because I wouldn't want him to dismiss your stepdaughters valid feelings. Then I'd tell my stepdaughter that her father and I would love to have her come home at Christmas and she can do that without feeling any discomfort, that the decision has been made and it won't be changed whether she does come home or not.

If I want to change the world for women, and I do, then that's the only choice I could make. A young woman shouldn't have to make a choice she wouldn't otherwise make, because a man has treated her like shit. This was a power play on his part, for his own gratification, nothing else. If I hadn't made the choice I did when I was challenged I'd have felt that I didn't deserve a young woman's respect, that she deserved better and I let her down. I also think your DH needs to reconsider his attitude towards his own daughter.

I'm not underestimating the difficulties for you, especially as you don't have your DH's support; at least I did have that from my partner.

DH spends Christmas with SD. You host your parents but do say to DF that his inappropriate comments have caused this. It's okay to tell him the truth!

Quite shocked that some people think she should just leave it.

Is this how we treat our kids when they are upset? We just back away in case it causes issues?

If anyone said something that upset a member of my family, then I'm going to do something about it.

I would encourage her to come but also assure her that should anything similar happen that you and your husband will have her back and call your father out on it immediately. Should things become awkward then it should be him who is asked to leave and not her.

Anything less in my mind lets him think that you are all accepting that she should either put up with it or not come to Christmas.

In my opinion this is a typical Mumsnet overreaction.

I think your stepdaughter is being very overly sensitive about a silly comment made by an old man from a different country (maybe different culture?).

I'm not excusing it, it is unpleasant. But is it really worth all the fuss? Sounds like a typical millennial being 'triggered', it's not like he made a pass at her himself he just said something that was inappropriate. At 24 I was working in an industry where I would have had to leave in the first week if I'd got too offended by a comment like that.

You shouldn't not have your parents over, as you say you hardly see them and it's arranged. I think you should talk to your stepdaughter and say that you'll make sure that your father stays in line. Then talk to your parents and say that this sort of thing is not an acceptable thing to say and you won't have it in your house.

If your stepdaughter still can't forgive it then she's cutting off her nose to spite her face and I'd just leave it and let her make her own plans.

Why don't you visit your parents in their country sometimes ? You talk as if you can't see them unless they come to you. I know you're asking about your DSD but I just don't get why it's always them having to come to you.

moonage so if it happens to you, don't be offended.

You're not the person involved, though so what you'd feel is totally irrelevant.

“Dad, I’ve just spoken with SD and I’m very disturbed by what she’s told me you said last year about her and Ted sleeping together.
What the heck were you thinking? Utterly appalling if you. SD is upset and depot offended and she’s said that she won’t be coming for Christmas if you’re here.
Needless to say, SD will always be our priority so unless you are able to do something to amend this situation - then you and mum are going to have to find somewhere else for Christmas.”

And have your mum in on the conversation so she hears first hand

OP, are your parents from a different culture? Is there perhaps a cultural component here?

I wish I could go back in time and tell all the men who have made inappropriate comments and perved on me and scream "f£ck off" in their faces. Now, I don't get any because I'm over 40, thank God.

One of the things that makes my blood boil the most is the assumption that once a girl hits puberty she is suddenly interested in men that are old enough to be their dad or grandad. Who the F do these men think they are?

Girls need to be taught in school to stand up to sexist comments. They should teach this in sex ed.

Many older people say things which would have been pretty awful when they were young but totally unacceptable now. Attitudes about all sorts of things have changed immeasurably and often ( but not always) for the better.

Surely the SD can be rational enough to understand this and, knowing that you are totally on her side, realise that you are being put in a piggy in the middle situation where your DC will not see his elderly GP if she insists on avoiding the family home for Christmas. The OP can explain to her DF that his remark upset the SD and that he must be tactful during the visit. The SD can behave like an adult as doing the hard stuff is the only way to resilience and adulthood.

Those who say that the SD should not be faced with sexist attitudes are being unrealistic. Of course she should not have to face any real consequences of sexism but there was never any chance of her actually having to sleep with the OP’s DB.

Protecting young addults from reality is encouraging snowflakery when what is needed to cope with the adult world is experience of a wide range of people and techniques to deal with difficult situations.

Truth, reality, experience and independent thought are needed for maturity.

I agree that @TrainQuestions suggestion is best. I get that you are concerned they you won't see your parents again. I think this suggestion balances best with the fact your stepdaughter is very validly and appropriately disgusted that your father made the comment to her. As uncomfortable as it is to think of, he does see her in a sexual light. I would also let her know that you agree with her.

Exactly how old is your DF? He can’t be that old if he is still running a business, why don’t you change the flights so that you visit your parents at Christmas & DSD can celebrate with her Dad and brother at home?