delicate family problem, WWYD?

[sunflowers63]

Definitely NC for this. Will try and keep it short.

I live in the UK, my parents live in another country and I only see them every couple of years at the most, when they come here, usually for Xmas. I get on OK with them but my father can be a bit of a twat and our political views etc do not coincide. So I tend to be fairly superficial with him, otherwise I get annoyed.

I have a stepdaughter, who is 24 and at university. She is single at the moment, and is a very pretty, bright, fab girl all round. I have a brother, let’s call him Ted, who is 37 and lives in another country (not the one where my parents live, although that is not really relevant). My brother recently got divorced, after a pretty disastrous marriage which we in the family were all very sceptical about from the beginning (I kept my scepticism to myself and tried to be friendly to my SIL, however my parents, on the rare occasions when they met her, were quite rude to her and about her, and made it abundantly clear to my brother that they did not approve of her).

My parents are coming to us this Xmas. I was hoping that stepdaughter would also come home for Xmas, in the uni holidays. She has now told me that she won’t come while my parents are here because of something my father said to her a few months ago (when she happened to be visiting the country where my parents live). He reportedly said to her that she should sleep with Ted, in a jokey kind of way. I suppose he thought he was being funny and probably that he was complimenting my stepdaughter by saying that he wished poor divorced Ted could get such a lovely girl.

My stepdaughter was disgusted by this, she did not say anything to me immediately as she did not want to upset me (we are very close), but over the summer holidays, when I asked her if she was coming home for Xmas she said that she could not, because my father will be here, and she had to tell me why. I was embarrassed, horrified and had no idea what to say (still don’t). My DH does not think I should say anything to my parents, my father is likely to either have forgotten the incident altogether (very likely), just deny it, or to say it was just a joke and not understand why anyone would make a fuss.

Should I do anything about this? It is not difficult for my stepdaughter to avoid my parents, they are here once every two to three years at the most. I just feel sad and angry that she has to.

Thank you Cyber, that is helpful. The thread seems pretty polarised and it is difficult to read the comments suggesting that I cut off all contact with my elderly parents at this stage (although I appreciate that this would be a potentially valid and appropriate response for some, it is not going to work for me).

My father is a kind, funny, loving person. He is also sometimes inappropriate, tends not to think about things properly, and has political views I completely abhor. He CAN be both good and bad. Same for my mother, who both I love dearly but also can only take in small doses (hence putting them up in a hotel when they visit me, and, in the days before I had my son and used to visit them, I would stay in a hotel in their city and not at their home).

My son will be fine, he would not understand any of this. He is ten and of course he is not going to be anywhere else for Christmas dinner!

Yes, I bought her a holiday. As I did two Christmases ago. As I did this summer, and last summer and the summer before. It is not unusual. She is at university, she has no income, if I didn't pay for her holidays she would not have any.

I have never toed the line!

Good for you. The entirety of your OP is toeing a line, and you say yourself the reasons behind all your decisions is this underlying family hidden truth and other deep rooted issues which you cannot face.

I don't think the internet is the place for this, ans I'm sorry if I've used words that have caused offence.

You have every right to feel angry at the injustices of your life. Its shit having to have lived that for so long, and to still be under it, despite your best efforts to get away.

Whether and how often you see your parents is 100% your business, and you owe us nothing in that regard, but I really think you would benefit from spending some time on the Stately Homes threads, and unpacking some of this with a therapist. Saying that calling your dad on his inappropriateness would literally kill your mother is... Well, you honestly don't seem to hear how big and how fucked that is.

No, the family secret is nothing at all to do with any of my decisions, I only mentioned it to illustrate the way my parents deal with things, which is to ignore/bury them.

I have long ago confronted my issues with my parents, including in therapy,. The way I live, having some contact with them and seeing them every few years, while making sure they are OK and looked after, works extremely well for me and my mental health. I am not going to change the whole set-up, I was just looking for views on this particular incident with my stepdaughter, and I have received them. This has prompted me to re-open a discussion with her to see if there is anything else she wants to say or do...

Oh. It didn't come over that way.

When drilled into these were your answers.

To many, without your particular family history, it wouldn't be such a complex issue,but he'd be pulled on it and dsd wouldn't have to feel she'd got to step away from her own family Christmas as a result. She has, and this was your OP.

She shouldn't have to just because a man has shamed and upset her this way. A man who still gets his Christmas.

I do believe you have already made your choices, and here is not a place I would expect you to be defending them. You have only yourself to answer to.

I am not going to be cutting them out of my life.

Well no, you are going to be supporting them financially. You have a lot more power than you seem to feel you do. Which is odd.

I have long ago confronted my issues with my parents, including in therapy,.

This is something very deep, and probably not something you confront once and then done. The repercussions are still there and maybe you need to revisit now your lives have changed and your relationships with other family members (DSD, DS) are affected.

why does this have to be a confrontation, and more to the point why should you be the peacemaker?
If it were me I would very factually and unemotionally put the ball back in your parents court by telling them what SD said and then let them come up with a solution.

Agree with VeganCow. Can you say something like, "Unfortunately SD doesn't plan to join us for Christmas this year, Dad. She was uncomfortable with a remark you made when she last visited you." And leave the ball in his court then.

It might be that there is no solution and Christmas goes the way you've mentioned above but at least you're saying it - in a non-confrontational way - and it might help prevent a reoccurance

You can't talk yourself out of this one OP - I do feel for you, there's always a point like this in the kind of 'relationship' you describe.

Bottom line here is that you do toe the line to make the situation work for you, but you are separate enough in general terms to be able to tell yourself that you don't. That's fine. But when something like this arises the core dynamic is revealed. You don't dare confront your father even though it's abhorrent that the other option is you effectively condoning his sexually harassing your stepdaughter.

If you seriously cannot even point out to him that what he said made your SD feel extremely uncomfortable and shouldn't have been said, then yes, hell yes you toe the line.

The important person here is your SD so I would suggest that you instead find a way to be honest with her about the dynamic with your father and make sure she knows how upset you are by this and how - I don't know? - you wish it could be differnet, you wish you had a different dynamic with him which meant that confronting him wouldn't be a nuclear option. That's honest. You shouldn't feel at fault for being in that dynamic but at least try and make sure that your SD understands how you feel.

Fizzy that is pretty much what I have done. She has a problematic relationship with her own mother and stepfather (who have their own unacceptable features) so she is no stranger to difficult family dynamics. She knows how upset I am about this.

Then all good. Just protect your relationship with her - that is the only thing that is important here.

And if I did tell them not to come I would have to tell them why and I don't think I can have that conversation with them.

Try to be a bit braver. Tell them, last visit Dad made a sexually inappropriate joke to my daughter. Before I can confirm plans I need him to write an apology and promise it won’t happen again.

If he does this then you make it possible to move forward. Otherwise this issue will be with you forever and the victims (you and SD) will be the ones to suffer as you continue to accept your Dad’s behaviour.

Wow, some people are going way over the top here 😲

OP, you sound like a wonderful mum and step-mum.

You also sound like you are a good daughter and have found a set-up which works for you.

I think you have reached the answer yourself which is simply to speak to your step daughter and find a solution that works.

This does not need to blow your family apart x

I have read all posts just original post.
I think what your dad said wasnt that bad. My dad puts his foot in it must worse than that. Dont think it's anything to take great offense too. He was saying she is good enough for his son....all be it in a very tasteless way.
I would say to your step daughter that whilst what he said was wrong in his own round about way it was his way of saying he approved of her and likes her. Of course it was a flippant comment and noone expects it to actually happen. At your dads age 24 and 37 prob all seem like young/young ish adults and maybe he thinks they would make a nice couple. Valid her feelings but encourage her to look at the action not the intention. Let her know u respect her decision about Christmas but she will be deeply missed.
Def wouldnt mention it to your dad. You cant teach an old dog new tricks springs to mind. I doubt u will get him to see where he went wrong. U could tell him fyi dad dont mention anything about dating to step daughter again she doesn't like talking about it. Dont stress it she will get over it and u cant police everything to come out your dads mouth (God knows I would love to with mine). Have a lovely Christmas with your folks and see your step daughter when u can separately if that's what she insists on....dont let one misplaced comment spoil either relationship.

Sorry look at the intention not the action. Wrote it the wrong way round

I agree your dad was inappropriate but really, people saying it's sexual harrassement or that your DH should pay and take his daughter away somewhere else are massive over reactions. What is your SD going to do say when she has a job and some creepy man makes an inappropriate comment, not go back? Yes it's unfortunate that he said what he did but she should have called him on it straight away and then he would know it is not ok to say stuff like this. What is she like generally? Is she a sensitive soul? I dunno OP, tough one for you but although yes it was inapproriate I don't think it is worthy of cutting them out and causing a whole load of drama.

@FizzyGreenWater your post made so much sense. OP I’m glad you’re getting slightly more balanced comments now. It really sounds like you are doing all you can.

I can’t believe some people suggest having it out in any way with your father about this visit when you potentially may not see your parents, who you love despite their faults, for another three years at their age..

I think it’s worked out well that SD wants to holiday with her friends so this doesn’t need to create more heartache than it already has.
I would focus on having a nice time with your family over the holidays and follow Fizzys advice about speaking openly with your SD.

Good luck with it all

Jeez some posters on here have such a low bar for men.

Interestingly OP has ignored all suggestions to talk to her father about the comment and just keeps insisting that she is not going to cancel the trip or cut all contact with her parents.
I don't think (m)any(?) people are suggested those more "extreme" courses of action.
OP, I am interested in why you don't want (or perhaps feel unable) to talk to your father about his comment. I suspect that you can't challenge him about it without a big fallout. So you're focusing on the big outcomes (cancelled trip, no more contact ever) when that wasn't what people meant. I suppose in your family it's not possible to challenge someone at all? That's why even small things become big dramas?

If you can't simply say to him "your comment was inappropriate and upset DSD, we would all appreciate it if you would please apologise to her" without starting WW3, I have no idea why you bother and how you are going to tolerate a whole month with them.

You may have already had therapy but you might benefit from more of it. At least read Toxic Parents and check out the stately homes thread.

I am glad your DSD is looking forward to her snowboarding trip but I really feel for her. I think the damage of dysfunctional family relationships gets passed on through the generations if we are not very very careful.

She already told me that I should "just leave it" , not confront him and that she will just avoid him. I will check with her that is still what she wants and raise some of the points made here.

Op, it is not fair to put this on her. Because she has said to 'just leave it' does not absolve you of your responsibilities.

You are the parent and the role model. You are (effectively) ignoring your father's behaviour and condoning it. In your actions I mean.

I understand why you want to 'sweep this under the carpet' and 'not rock the boat' etc. with your parents, But I think you are in the wrong and I think you may well come to regret it in time.

Your dsd is still young and needs to look to older women, especially her step mother to show her that this is unacceptable and that women should not have to 'calm down', put up with or pander to this kind of behaviour. Of course it will be uncomfortable and upsetting, but that's how it is unfortunately.

The trouble us, there's always going to have to be others compromising themselves in order to maintain this kind of relationship.

OP is making those compromises for herself, which is fine, but must bear the consequences when those compromises impact others. OP has no right to impose compromises on others, but has the power to do so with enough money to buy holiday compensations, etc.

This is the message DSD has had.

There's a fair bit of operational dynamic through money from the posts. Skewing power bias.

I think you've got it about right OP.
You see your parents,they also see your son.
YourSD goes on n holiday for Christmas with friends,that is normal for young adults and certainly not unusual for her.
Your Husband,SD and you have talked about this inappropriate comment and I thought no that is enough,your SD knows you both support her.
And I know plenty of nice people who can get it so wrong sometimes and are unaware of their affect on others no matter how often told so totally get why the OP needs to see her parents without it being made into more of a drama.
You have done everything you can to make everyone happy IP.I hope you can find time for a bit of peace for yourself.

hag
YourSD goes on n holiday for Christmas with friends,that is normal for young adults and certainly not unusual for her.

OP didn't say that at all. OP said sds was excluding herself from this year's family Christmas as a direct result of her dgf telling her to fuck her uncle

She understandably, felt awful, and I don't know how a young woman of 24 is suppossd to act when her dgf speaks like this to her, suffice to say, she couldn't bear to be around him, even for a meal, when hes not even staying at the house.

DD doesn't even dare speak to her 'd'f about this?