delicate family problem, WWYD?

[sunflowers63]

Definitely NC for this. Will try and keep it short.

I live in the UK, my parents live in another country and I only see them every couple of years at the most, when they come here, usually for Xmas. I get on OK with them but my father can be a bit of a twat and our political views etc do not coincide. So I tend to be fairly superficial with him, otherwise I get annoyed.

I have a stepdaughter, who is 24 and at university. She is single at the moment, and is a very pretty, bright, fab girl all round. I have a brother, let’s call him Ted, who is 37 and lives in another country (not the one where my parents live, although that is not really relevant). My brother recently got divorced, after a pretty disastrous marriage which we in the family were all very sceptical about from the beginning (I kept my scepticism to myself and tried to be friendly to my SIL, however my parents, on the rare occasions when they met her, were quite rude to her and about her, and made it abundantly clear to my brother that they did not approve of her).

My parents are coming to us this Xmas. I was hoping that stepdaughter would also come home for Xmas, in the uni holidays. She has now told me that she won’t come while my parents are here because of something my father said to her a few months ago (when she happened to be visiting the country where my parents live). He reportedly said to her that she should sleep with Ted, in a jokey kind of way. I suppose he thought he was being funny and probably that he was complimenting my stepdaughter by saying that he wished poor divorced Ted could get such a lovely girl.

My stepdaughter was disgusted by this, she did not say anything to me immediately as she did not want to upset me (we are very close), but over the summer holidays, when I asked her if she was coming home for Xmas she said that she could not, because my father will be here, and she had to tell me why. I was embarrassed, horrified and had no idea what to say (still don’t). My DH does not think I should say anything to my parents, my father is likely to either have forgotten the incident altogether (very likely), just deny it, or to say it was just a joke and not understand why anyone would make a fuss.

Should I do anything about this? It is not difficult for my stepdaughter to avoid my parents, they are here once every two to three years at the most. I just feel sad and angry that she has to.

I also think a total over reaction which I personally would not indulge. I would just say you are sorry she isn’t joining you and arrange a time after Christmas.

I think your SD is over-reacting. She should be old enough to ingnore inappropriate comments.

Yes, because as women, we should outgrow natural sensible reactions to sexual harassment from men.

I am the same age as your DSD OP. I was sexually abused as a child and (like many young females) have been harassed many times in my teens and young adulthood, in many ways. Sometimes the subtlety insidious harassment like overly sexual comments or questions can feel worse than overt and obvious harassment.
It's the constant defense of men who are PERFECTLY HAPPY KNOWING THEY ARE MAKING A YOUNG WOMAN UNCOMFORTABLE and the invalidation of a females right to FEEL uncomfortable that makes men feel safe to harass women all the while making women feel like they need to sit down, shut up and not cause a drama over 'nothing'.

I would have been uncomfortable enough to never want to see the man again from that one comment, but I would bet that there have been more. Men don't start by 'joking' about a woman having sex with someone, they start by joking that she is flirting, or making comments about her clothes or if she's looking to find a date, they wink when they shouldn't or hold their hand too long against her back when directing her (unnecessarily) through a door. They build up to joking about her shagging a relative, and lots will continue to build past there too.

If you have to have them for xmas could your DH have your stepchildren at home while you and your parents stayed elsewhere? If you have to pick sides, please pick hers.

Most people don’t like conflict. We find it awkward and uncomfortable and it doesn’t always lead to the results we hoped for.

But sometimes conflict is warranted. I think this is one of those times. There is no age at which a man can be excused for inappropriate sexual comments to a much younger woman.

It’s not easy to tell a parent they were offensive. But sometimes it absolutely needs to be done.

Yuk. No one wants a dirty old man for a dad, let alone a granddad.

But. DF is old, probably not all there, and it was a throwaway remark.

SDD has a choice. It's a chance for SDD to be the bigger person. Again. Wearing the grown-up shoes is always annoying. Being noble is always exasperating too. Ask SDD if she thinks it's worth it for a last family Xmas.

Point out how you have had a go at DF in strongest terms about his idea of polite conversation, which you should so, and see what she decides.

Personally, I think that if everyone on the planet started taking the idle chat of every old lech around, you're giving the idiot in the room a lot of power he doesn't deserve. And you know what? There's always an idiot in the room.

God, I'm so sorry. I'm going to be blunt: your Dad sexually harassed your step-daughter. No wonder you're upset. It's creepy and horrible and must have upset her really badly, being sexualised that way by a man who is effectively a grandparent.

I think your decision here has to be guided on whether she has somewhere else she can be this Christmas. If she doesn't, and you are essentially saying she has to spend Christmas alone because your father comes first, you are siding with the aggressor. If she does, then it's a bit less stark.

I agree that there's no point challenging him. Men like that won't ever admit what they're doing (though interestingly, they never do it to women with any power over them. Funny that). He would express either bemusement or outrage. It's a hiding to nothing.

If she can stay with her mum, then I think you should give her some control over this and tell her that you are appalled and that you are prepared to put the visit off until the summer, for example, if she would like. You say she's lovely, so she will almost certainly tell you not to, at which point you can assure her that in future visits won't be over Christmas. And if she has to be alone this Christmas if your father comes, I think you have to move the visit to summer, anyway. Why should this lovely girl be alone then, because the creepy old man who leered at her and made sexual remarks is prioritised?

Again I am so sorry. It's a hard and awful situation for you.

Personally, I think that if everyone on the planet started taking the idle chat of every old lech around, you're giving the idiot in the room a lot of power he doesn't deserve.

Alternatively, we're creating a world for our daughters where they don't have to take the casual misogyny we all have. Time's Up, I've been told.

If you have to pick sides, you pick the side that is not giving you an ultimatum. If she won’t come because your parents are there, so doesn’t come. It’s a shame, but tough.

As always someone being old is an excuse for any behaviour - including a crude sexual remark to their step granddaughter.

Even though he’s apparently always been in the habit of making sex a conversation, his own dd limits conversation with him because he’s a twat and he was rude and horrible to his DIL...

I am very confused as to how and when your father said these things to your step - daughter.
As he lives abroad, how was he able to talk to her ?
Did she visit him in his home country or did she randomly just happen to bump into him while she was there ?

Your Step daughter can be offended by your dad. But he is your father and some of the reactions on here are really extreme.

See your father as arranged and let your Step daughter be an adult and spend Xmas as she wants to.

Also a bit confused by logistics here of father and step daughters location. If step daughter is in Europe would that mean parents are or was step daughter travelling when she saw your parents?

Anyway, I could not see my daughter being left behind at uni over Xmas when her friends are home with families. You say she only gets a few days off, so I'd ensure she was home for a few days and have parents hook into a H&M for them few days and allow them to stay at yours before or after step daughter (or both before and after depending on how long they're back in the uk for.). I would be clear to dad the reason- that step daughter was highly offended and creeped out by his behaviour. Don't give him the chance to deny/ minimise, just tell him how it is. It is not acceptable and you should not allow your step daughter to think anything other that that. By not having her home for Christmas you are essentially telling her she does not matter and sexual abuse/harassment from a family member is ok.

@perfectstorm - I know, I know what I sound like. I agree with everything you say. I'm not an apologist.

But sometimes the best solution to a conflict is, once the aggressor's been bollocked - as I suggested - for the victim to move on. No one's relations are perfect, especially not the mentally infirm aged ones.

The saddest thing is that no one on this thread has denied SDD is going to have to learn how to deal with this type of misogyny. Ugh. There's no upside to that, is there.

What sort of disgusting creep sexually harasses their own step granddaughter? And how could wanting her to have sex with her own step uncle be any form of joke? There's nothing funny about it.

Your father is a disgrace, your sd should be supported. It is a valid choice for her to choose not to see him again ( most of is would feel this way ) your fathers comments are aggravated by the fact your sd is young, travelling alone and staying at their house.

Your solutions;

1. dh pays for sd airfare to see her mother

2. takes dd out for Christmas lunch and she stays nearby but not with your parents.

3. You cancel your parents flights to another date, and celebrate Christmas another time, tell them why.

4. you fly out to your parents before Christmas with ds before Christmas, celebrate with them and come home to sd.

I feel for your dh what an awful position to be in. Does he even want to see them after they treated his dd that way?

If you only see them every few years then why did your DF say this to your DSS a few months ago? Am I missing something?

I think your SD is over-reacting. She should be old enough to ingnore inappropriate comments.

At what age are we training girls and women to ignore comments from men that make us uncomfortable? Do they teach it in schools now? Is there a night class solely for women so we can learn how to smile politely as nasty misogynist arseholes speak to us like pieces of meat and pass it off as "jokes"?

I think OP's SD is absolutely right to avoid that old goat and OP wouldn't be in the wrong to tell her DF what she thinks of history of inappropriate comments.

Using the "it's a joke, lighten up" line doesn't undermine the fact that many, many men make women feel uncomfortable by behaving this way, and instead of smiling and accepting it we should be shouting them down so that they know better (and, hopefully, do better) next time a pretty young woman crosses their path.

Oh my god op, have your sd for Christmas not your pervert dad.

He really can’t see you any other time of the whole year - that’s ridiculous.

If dh dad made perverse comments to your dd, meaning your dd wouldn’t come for Christmas, wwyd? You’d tell your dh to tell his df to fuck off, surely?

Why should she have to accept the revolting letchery just because he’s old and they’ve bought tickets? Your father is the one who’s spoiled things by making sexually inappropriate remarks to a teenager so he should be the one to stay away.

The one person not being considered here is OP mum.

She would also not get to see her daughter ever again potentially or her grandson. That would sway it for me - I would accommodate DSD as nicely as possible but not disinvite parents.

Wow! I see a throw away comment - albeit a bit crass and in bad taste but some of the responses here are ridiculous;

"He reportedly said to her that she should sleep with Ted, in a jokey kind of way. I suppose he thought he was being funny and probably that he was complimenting my stepdaughter by saying that he wished poor divorced Ted could get such a lovely girl."

If you're SDD can't deal with that she needs to toughen up.

I would pay for stepdaughter to visit her mother over Christmas, if stepdaughter is willing to do that.

What a difficult situation. I would say nothing, let visit go ahead with parents but prioritize your step daughter with a visit to her country (if you can afford it) as soon as your parents are off out of the country (or before).

You're not responsible for your dad's silly comment and you sound like a fab step mum so just do your best and get through it. I think it is best to say nothing but if your dad repeats it in your hearing then do tell him what an unpleasant thing it is to say.

If you're SDD can't deal with that she needs to toughen up.

She is dealing with it by staying away from such idiots. I wonder what her father would think about his FIL talking to her like that. Doubt he would be telling her to toughen up.

Your poor step-daughter. I would have your husband take her somewhere special for Christmas just the two of them. Your father is simply gross.

I agree with @thecatinthetwat and @FenellaMaxwell

Your DF is an old perv spouting crap like that and your SD should not have to put up with shit like that.

His age shouldn’t even come into it, horrible man, how dare he talk to her like that?!?