delicate family problem, WWYD?

[sunflowers63]

Definitely NC for this. Will try and keep it short.

I live in the UK, my parents live in another country and I only see them every couple of years at the most, when they come here, usually for Xmas. I get on OK with them but my father can be a bit of a twat and our political views etc do not coincide. So I tend to be fairly superficial with him, otherwise I get annoyed.

I have a stepdaughter, who is 24 and at university. She is single at the moment, and is a very pretty, bright, fab girl all round. I have a brother, let’s call him Ted, who is 37 and lives in another country (not the one where my parents live, although that is not really relevant). My brother recently got divorced, after a pretty disastrous marriage which we in the family were all very sceptical about from the beginning (I kept my scepticism to myself and tried to be friendly to my SIL, however my parents, on the rare occasions when they met her, were quite rude to her and about her, and made it abundantly clear to my brother that they did not approve of her).

My parents are coming to us this Xmas. I was hoping that stepdaughter would also come home for Xmas, in the uni holidays. She has now told me that she won’t come while my parents are here because of something my father said to her a few months ago (when she happened to be visiting the country where my parents live). He reportedly said to her that she should sleep with Ted, in a jokey kind of way. I suppose he thought he was being funny and probably that he was complimenting my stepdaughter by saying that he wished poor divorced Ted could get such a lovely girl.

My stepdaughter was disgusted by this, she did not say anything to me immediately as she did not want to upset me (we are very close), but over the summer holidays, when I asked her if she was coming home for Xmas she said that she could not, because my father will be here, and she had to tell me why. I was embarrassed, horrified and had no idea what to say (still don’t). My DH does not think I should say anything to my parents, my father is likely to either have forgotten the incident altogether (very likely), just deny it, or to say it was just a joke and not understand why anyone would make a fuss.

Should I do anything about this? It is not difficult for my stepdaughter to avoid my parents, they are here once every two to three years at the most. I just feel sad and angry that she has to.

OP, @Frouby and @teacher give sensible, measured advice (if you are still on this thread)

I want to know if the older brother is going to be visiting at Christmas and if he is aware of what his Father has said about him and the stepdaughter - he might want to give his Father a stern talking to about his comments.

Thank you so much everyone for the input. In answer to some questions:

My father is 76. He is not senile or dementing. He could easily have said the same thing thirty years ago.

My parents live in the same country (and city) as my stepdaughter's mother and she used to pop in and see them when she was there visiting her mother.

I cannot travel to their country for Xmas, my son (who has special needs) would not be able to make the long journey. This is why I always pay for thm to visit me rather than going to them.

My parents will be staying in a nearby hotel anyway when they come. They are coming for a month. I have already spent thousands of pounds on their trip and lots of arrangements have had to be made for covering my father's work etc. I have not seen my parents for three years, neither has my ten year old son. I do happen to love them and miss them, whatever I think of my father's behaviour.

My stepdaughter has only three or four days off over Xmas. To get to her mother would take a day travelling each way so it is not an option. She has somewhere else to go, I have funded a snowboarding weekend with friends. (Where she lives is near mountains).

I have discussed it with her as has her father, she knows we are horrified and upset and disapprove entirely of what my father said. She also understands my position. She just spent the entire summer with us including a fab three week holiday abroad.

DH cannot be apart from me and our son for Xmas, just not an option.

I do not think my stepdaughter is being too sensitive or overreacting at all. I am totally on her side. She knows that. But to cancel my parents; trip would be pretty mush a nuclear option and very likely mean I never see my parents again. If I confront my father he will very likely deny it. My mother is getting forgetful and would just be highly confused and upset, to no purpose.

@LiveInAHidingPlace

Give it a rest! Are you always so judgemental about other peoples partners? My husband has other good qualities or I wouldn't have married him in the first place.

Oh and yes, my brother is also coming for Xmas

@sunflowers63

Oh no - that sounds like fun

I'm appalled by some of the responses on this thread.

His comment was unacceptable and cannot be excused or explained away by age or senility (WTF). As for the PP who has rewritten the comment in two different ways and demands to know what he actually said - it was in the OP!

The stepdaughter is not overreacting, she does not need to "grow up" or whatever else has been said, it is not too late to challenge the behaviour (ideally it would be challenged immediately but it's not a one time only opportunity) and she may be responsible for "fighting her own battles" but she is certainly entitled to the support of her parents - especially when it's a family like this. (Also, for more serious cases of sexual harassment and abuse, it's just as well people aren't expected to "fight their own battles" and we do actually have laws and support systems in place - albeit imperfect ones.)

My brother is not an older brother, he is very much younger than me...

@sunflowers63 it sounds like you, your husband and stepdaughter have an excellent relationship and you have made the right decision for you all.

This is the holiday to cut your father no slack on the sexual comments. He needs to know it's not appropriate and you won't put up with it anymore.

@sunflowers63

Ok he is your younger brother but older than your stepdaughter?

I think you need to keep your Father well away from your stepdaughter and your younger brother or you won't be having a happy Christmas - how you will manage to do this will be virtually impossible - so perhaps talk to your Father and get him to say sorry for his comments and say he had made a bad joke - hopefully that will be the end of it.

Personally, I'm bloody proud of your SD for recognising that the comment was creepy and inappropriate and deciding for herself not to see your DF any more. I had far too much nicey-nicey socialisation bullshit in my head to do the same at her age. I hope more of her generation have grown up able to achieve robust boundaries and protect themselves from creepy arseholes.

OP it is a tough situation for you and it does seem like you've done your best. However just to point out it doesn't matter if your DF denies having made the comment. You know he made it, and you can hold him responsible whether he admits to it or not. I would probably find a time in private and tell him how pissed off you were and how you will be having serious issues with him if you hear of him making any comment like this again, to anyone.

Jesamine, your husband is disgusting and how you can bring yourself to have sex with someone who makes Benny Hill jokes is beyond me. You are tolerating and enabling it. Start walking away every time he does. Quite literally. Next time he makes an off colour joke in a pub, get up, leave your drink, and walk straight out. Leave the room. Hang up the phone. I guarantee if you stopped treating him like he has brain damage and can't learn social boundaries and started actually enforcing YOUR boundaries, he would stop doing it.

As for Christmas, the DSD should absolutely not be spending it alone or elsewhere because his comment has made her uncomfortable in his company. She should be able to spend Christmas with her family without feeling anxious about inappropriate comments.

Were your parents planning to stay at your house or at a nearby hotel/Airbnb? Perhaps they could still visit but not actually stay overnight with you while DSD is there?

Personally I would tell the father that his comment was inappropriate and has understandably made DSD feel upset and uncomfortable at the prospect of spending time with him - I would ask him to apologise to her and reassure her that he won't make any comments like that again.

If he agrees, I would hope that DSD accepts the apology and agrees to see him at Christmas (but not for an extended stay in the same house), but if he doesn't agree, they would not be invited to the family home at Christmas. They could still visit but we would meet on neutral ground (you could see them without DSD).

Why can't you bring it up with your father OP? What do you think will happen if you do?

If I'd said something that I thought was fine, but someone else thought was totally offensive, I'd be bemused, but I'd certainly agree not to talk about it again for the sake of family harmony. I'd just think to myself, "what a nutter," and I'd nod and smile.

I think that if you call someone out on something and they act hurt or angry or misunderstood, the reason they are reacting so hard is because on some level they know that they were out of order. And they are annoyed that they've not been allowed to get away with it.

If it's embarassing to him, if it makes it sound worse, to quote his comments back to him out of context, maybe he could reflect that the awkwardness he is feeling is similar to the awkwardness that he made your SD feel in the first place.

I think you should be really careful that this doesn't cause a rift between you and SD, OP - she's done nothing wrong, and while she's free to make the decision of where to spend Christmas, I wouldn't blame her for feeling resentful that she was being kept away from her own family home at Christmas so as to be able to avoid this creepy man.

To those who are feeling sorry for the OP's mum - I'm guessing this isn't the first time he's made an off colour comment in her earshot, in the course of their marriage? She's not doing it, but she is condoning it - if you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas. It would be nice if she felt able to come alone, wouldn't it? I think it would. Mum, daughter and stepdaughter all celebrating Christmas together, and the only person excluded being the one who actually behaved badly.

I'm not saying that the OP thinks like this right, but he's by no means the only elderly granda/dad/FIL who pisses everyone off with his comments and his boundary-crossing behaviour, and I wonder how many big mouthed elderly men are going to sit in someone's house this Christmas eating the food that's been lovingly prepared, chatting shite, making everyone feel uncomfortable, completely unaware that everyone around the table is thinking, of course it will be sad when granda eventually passes, but it will certainly improve Christmas dinner...

Damn, cross posts. I took so long to write my two that I hadn't seen your updates.

Yes we do have very good relationships, I have brought my stepdaughter up since she was twelve and I am very lucky to have her, she is a fantastic young woman.

I always end up having to bite my tongue with my father because of his poltical views, and I will continue to do that, but I will certainly call him out on any further questionable comments about my stepdaughter. I am very angry with him right now but am going to have to calm myself down, at least externally, by December. Not least for my mother's sake.

Sounds like you and your dh have sorted everything out as well as it could be sorted OP. I think your arrangements are fine.

@CmdrCressidaDuck

Don't worry he is banished to the spare room until further notice - I blame his Mother for the way he is because she comes from Liverpool and has dragged up her son imho.

OK so now I've read the updates I'm not impressed tbh. Are you even going to talk to your father about what he said and tell him why your DSD won't be there at Christmas?

If he had been willing to apologise she might have been willing to stay. And if he hadn't apologised, you wouldn't have to cancel the whole visit - they're coming for a month, you could easily have seen them for the rest of their stay and not Christmas itself when DSD was around.

She will always remember that you chose your creepy father over her.

Re the ages, just to clarify: my father is 76, my brother is 37, my stepdaughter is 24. I am 56.

She does not want him to apologise, she just never wants to see him again...

"I am very angry with him right now but am going to have to calm myself down, at least externally, by December."

Why should you calm down? How can you calm down if you don't talk to him about it? You need to say something NOW or it will all fester and something will happen at Christmas.

All these women thinking they should just put up and shut up, it makes me despair

It's more for your mother than anything else isn't it? I get that. The roles were reversed with my family - my mum is the difficult one (bit of an understatement tbh, it's like having Christmas lunch with a Dementor) but my dad never considered leaving her. Then he got Alzheimer's. I just dealt with my mother until my dad died.

She does not want him to apologise, she just never wants to see him again

Well that's pretty ridiculous. She needs to learn that you can't avoid everyone who says something you don't like. There will ALWAYS be someone she doesn't agree with or who makes a comment that offends. It's human nature. It was a jokey comment, she needs to understand the difference between that and something actually serious.

OP was asking if she should do anything about what happened. I rad that as saying something to her father. SD not coming was already settled.