To Tell Friend To Feed Her Child Properly

[ChilledBee]

I have a friend with a four year old son. He's very small for his age and her HV and GP have made suggestions about how to change this. She isn't vegan but eats meat seldom and only shops organic and local. She makes these dishes which are foreign type stews with things like aubergine and squash (I eat/cook these things too) and will sprinkle some feta or another cheese on top. Or something with spinach and lentils. It isn't awful but for an acquired taste. My DH says it Italy seems like a side dish and he is waiting for the joint of slow cooked meat and some potatoes to accompany it. Any meat is organic/free range butcher ordered so very expensive and rarely eaten. She is very much into ethical shopping/farming/eating.

The trouble is, when I see the vegetables,they are often old (she gets a lot of home grown produce from her own allotment or that of friends) so I imagine the nutrients are depleted. Her son barely eats any of the food she gives him and she does worry about that because he's not only small but has some vitamin deficiencies too. But she thinks it has something else going on rather then he just doesn't like the food she makes.

Last week, she had to unfortunately stay in hospital for several days (10) with her mother who was touch and go. Her son stayed with me and even though it was something completely unfamiliar, he settled in well. She gave no dietary instructions so I just fed him like I do my own kids (3,3 and 1) on home cooked meals cooked from scratch (spaghetti bolognese,shepherds pie, burgers and chips) and he wolfed it down. In fact, the first day he came he had seconds and ice cream and jelly afterwards (pudding isn't routine in our house). I am embarrassed to say that I weighed him that night and the day before he went home. He gained 5lbs! My DH felt that I was out of order weighing him but I have to say that seeing him eat like that made me want to prove something I'd suspected all along.

I want to tell her that her son badly needs to eat food he likes and is healthy for a child. She often refers to childhood obesity but I think she underestimates the amount of fat and carbs a growing child needs. I know she feels quite isolated by her HV and GP who have sort of threatened her with SS (she says) but won't refer her for the medical investigations she wants. Her sister had 'failure to thrive' and was later found to have cerebral palsy which contributed to this but it isn't a hereditary condition which could explain her son's small stature. My DH doesn't think she is mentally stable. I think she is precious at best.

Would you say something?

Your blood sugar spiking is a normal reaction to eating food. Eating so much carbs/sugar that you remain in a near constant state of raised sugar levels is unhealthy. This is where people confuse what is healthy for a fat adult and what is healthy for a growing child. The BBC did a report on it about a decade ago in regards to nurseries feeding children these low fat diets. In some cases they were given half a fajita. My friend tuns a nursery and she says how little food the children are given because they have to weigh the portions or something

Some foods spike your blood sugar more than others. White pasta spikes it more than wholewheat pasta does. As part of a balanced diet, it is unlikely to make much of a difference in the long run - I agree. And I also agree that kids need a different diet to an adults in a lot of respects.

It depends if his weight is in a low percentile doesn’t it?

Ps to the people who are against white carbs. When my son was constipated as a baby/toddler I was actually advised NOT to give wholegrain foods before age 5, as you can actually overdo it with fibre with young kids.

NHS link here:www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/baby-food-questions/

You only mentioned meals with red meat which I only serve once a week. I think what people believe they need to eat and what we actually need to eat is far different

The 'foreign stew' comment was unfortunate but it's a red herring here.

Food isn't a theoretical concept. You have to eat it and digest it to reap the benefits. All the healthy lentils and spinach with feta cheese sprinkled over it in the world will do a child no good at all if he doesn't eat it.

Also, food is food. Super expensive, farmer-sourced, grass-fed beef has iron and protein in it and so does mince from Tesco.

The mother has lost sight of a basic truth about food - namely that what matters is that you eat it, not how scrupulous you are about making sure it ticks boxes from a 'sourcing' pov.

I would suspect that she herself has an eating disorder, disordered eating, or an over-rigid way of thinking about food.

@ChilledBee
If the child is small and underweight and has been diagnosed with vitamin deficiencies (or symptoms have been observed), and you know he will eat (so it's not a question of picky eating) and you also know his mother voices concerns over childhood obesity and that the GP and HV are on her back to admit there is an issue and accept help, I would actually call SS myself. In fact, I urge you to do that.

This is malnutrition and under-nutrition right in front of your eyes.

Your kids have a shit diet. People in glass houses and all that.

Just as an aside as a “forriner”.. I wonder about serving adult dishes to children. Many recipes are rather too strongly flavoured for kids.

Growing up for example, we’d eat adult food from about 8-10 but until then there was usually a much more mildly spiced dish or two available for us.

I have a young DD and my partner is also Indian so we end up cooking/eating a lot of Indian food. But while the adults like spicy things, we usually make much more gently spiced dals, veggie curries etc for DD. Recently made a lovely spicy chicken curry which several adults loved but she wouldn’t eat any of it - so we washed off the spice and gave it to her and she loved it.

I imagine other cultures are probably similar - people aren’t usually feeding young kids the heavily spiced dishes you see on Ottolenghi or in cookbooks, or what adults eat. Maybe that’s where she’s going wrong?

My children ate Dhal and curries with cumin and all sorts of spices from a young age. Granted, they did also have burgers and chips, but I know thats because I cant be bothered to cook on that day, not because its a massively healthy part of their diet they should be eating at all times.Their taste buds are now very broad. They eat a North African stew that I make for them quite often and with no complaint because they are used to my cooking and the spices I use in it. I cant believe he is not eating the food his mother makes, because he presumably has had that food from birth. Children are not born wanting chips and spag bol, they develop their tastes from what they are fed from weaning. Maybe she needs to give him bigger portions or a carb with it like cous cous, or maybe he's fine and on the 2nd percentile. Percentiles are an average. if a larger proportion of children his age are overweight, it will push the percentile up. I though tyou were going to say she just feeds him refined carbs and chips all day and she should give him some vegetables!!

@Cheeserton not everyone eats badly you know

Your kids have a shit diet

Based on what? how ignorant.

Oh and theyre not starving to death so there's that.

With regards to spicy stuff - if I make a curry for DH and I (nothing fancy, I’m not Hesten!) I will give DS the same but mix full fat yoghurt into it. Cools it down AND adds protein and fat in to the mix too.

If her veg is coming from allotments why would it be old? What is a foreign stew? Is it more foreign than spaguetti bolognese? And since when was jelly healthier than lentils?
5lb is a horrible amount to gain in 10 days for a small child. I bet he was bloated from all the processed food he wasn't used to eating.
My child is also small and a fussy eater, but I won't be setting him up for an unhealthy diet as an adult. He doesn't need burgers and chips, he needs more nuts, full fat dairy etc.
You are so out of order.

Ignoring the majority of the comments, I think the underlying factor in this is you are worried about a child. He clearly needs help if professionals are involved.
She might not like it but there may be subtle ways around it like suggested by someone else, invite them round for tea. Make a comment about how much he loved XYZ when he was at yours. Would she like the recipe?
Helping now is better then SS getting involved later.

As usual, a thread of self proclaimed dietitians who haven't read any of the OPs posts carefully. Processed burgers? No, homemade. As OP has stated.

OP, I agree you're in a tough predicament of what to do. Like some of the more reasonable PP have suggested, subtly dropping in how much he loved your homemade insert meals and asked for seconds and then was bounding around the park afterwards would be the best way to go. If you straight out tell her he gained 5lbs eating normal food she'll get offended, and with her already having a tough time (GP/HV involvement and her mother's illness), I wouldn't want to be too harsh. You could offer her around for dinner one night and cook something normal and homemade so she can see her son wolfing it down. Maybe it would confirm to her that her meals aren't always the way to go. I wouldn't talk to her HV, simply because it's a conflict of interests for her and would be very hard on your friendship if she found out you'd been "bad mouthing" her to a professional.

Other than that, there's not much you can do. It's a shame she isn't taking medical advice on board because her son is absolutely suffering. I was a very fussy eater as a child and I've only improved as I became an adult and was more open to trying different flavours. I, under no circumstances, would have ate any of the meals you've described. At the end of the day, he isn't so fussy to oppose regular food, so if it was me, I'd be focused on cooking meals from scratch that he'll actually eat. It's great preparing all these exotic meals, but if he isn't going to eat them, the added 'nutrition' isn't going in anyway.

I do worry about what parents feed their children these days. Obviously we've had years of articles on how processed crap is bad for kids, but let's not forget the recent stories of vegan parents who's children have died from malnutrition and starvation. Kids need food to grow and develop. That's the most important thing- getting semi decent food into them. End off.

@LoreleiRock your kids have a shit diet and you decide that? Oh pee off, not everyone eats fucking vegetables 24/7

zaphod thats what we do. The meals are all cooked mildly spiced and we add a bit of chilli sauce afterwards. I didnt see the OP say the dishes were spicy, just spiced with cumin, which is not spicy or it had spinach and feta in!

I can't believe you weighed him. Shocking behaviour.

If this mother won't take a doctor's advice on board then there is something going wrong, and the child should be protected.

You can't be so glued to your high horse about ethical food that your child ends up suffering.

Red meat and sugar? Yep pretty shit. And what kind of a twat weighs someone else’s child?

Say something yes, tell her you weighed him. No way in hell.
“He had such an appetite while he stayed with us, loved the food I cooked, even had seconds! He’s welcome any time” no judgement about what she feeds him (if he actually enjoyed and ate her cooking he’d probably be fine nutrition wise, just on the skinny side).

maybe he's fine on the 2nd percentile

Oh yes, so 'fine' that the GP and HV are concerned. What a load of utter tosh some of the posters are coming out on this thread with. Parents do not always know best, and if two health professionals are concerned, I think it's time that the parents involved sat up and took note. Why are we so quick to criticise parent's on Mumsnet when they haven't contacted health professionals quickly enough when a one off, non serious accident has happened, yet when two HP actually show concern to the well-being of a child, because they're too skinny as opposed to too fat, some people think it's okay?

Utter madness.

rock theres nothing wrong with red meat or sugar in moderation

@LoreleiRock I agree about the weighing thing, just to let ya know I’m 47.5 kg

Ffs, the amount of virtue signalling on this thread is ridiculous. They are undoubtedly the same people who say "fed is best" in defence of mum's who cannot, or choose not to, breastfeed. And rightly so.

I like a huge salad with avocado, radish, fennel and pumpkin seeds.

If I offered it to my kids, they would turn their noses up at it.

I have long since abandoned the idea of my particular kids having sophisticated palates. As a kid I ate anything; however my dh was incredibly fussy as a kid and 3 of my 4 seem to have inherited his fussiness.

I could serve up paella and north african couscous as many times as I like, and 3 of my kids would literally rather go hungry than eat that sort of thing. And I prefer my children to eat a full range of nutrients from a more "kid friendly" food range than eat nothing from an amazingly healthy and varied diet. So we do spag bol, sausages, fish fingers, pizza etc and they eat well and are a healthy weight. And the one adventurous eater will often have what we adults are having instead.

The point here is that the op's friend is prioritising a principle - that in her view, children should eat the same ethically sourced foods as their parents rather than any kind of "kid friendly" pandering - over ensuring her son actually eats anything, and her DS is suffering as a consequence.

In my view, fed is best - within healthy perameters of course. The OP isn't advocating chippy tea for every meal.

I think you should use your gut instinct here. I would tell her he ate very very well and what you fed him. That's factual. Keep judgement or emotional comments out of it. Then I guess you can see what she says?